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Re: undefined

#61

It's baffling that this information is worth so much. I'm curious as to what marketing is being custom sent to me based on the location data they get from me. I actually leave me phone at home most of the time if I'm going to the store or a nearby restaurant but I always take it with me when I go hiking. Even though I turn it off at the trailhead to save the battery in case I need it later, I'm sure I'm identified in…

It is mainly used by hedge funds.

I have heard it is used by some marketing firms, I have heard that some corporates use it for data on their own properties/competitors (the former may not be obvious, but some malls may do this to check on tenants, malls also usually have their own tracking stuff on site too btw) but the main user are hedge funds.

Not all of this data is useful by itself but it is useful once you integrate it with everything else (lots of firms have tried to use this data on it's own, and then complained it "doesn't work" when they employ no-one who actually understands the restaurant business, for example).

Also, I will say too...99% of this data is coming from free apps whose only purpose is to harvest data from the unwitting. I don't understand fully how this is possible because, presumably, it should be quite obvious to App Stores that a flashlight app does not need to know your location...but it keeps happening. Some of the big data aggregators are actually pretty creepy, I have seen some companies retailing personalised data on every person in the US, I don't think anyone knows where it is all coming from apart from them (I also wouldn't discount hacking tbh, there is so much money in this that I think they have to be doing it).

Imo, all this shit should be blocked. Even within hedge funds, you are seeing funds that are using this data, no-one knows where it comes from, how it was collected, and they making piles of money from it but no-one else can access it...they just call up a firm, tell them they will pay $50m/year if you don't sell this to anyone else, it is all very opaque.

Re: undefined

#62
post #20

> How can I stop companies from getting my location data? The steps they list only cover gps data. In my final year at uni, during the capstone fair, I recall one group built a tracking system that relied on Bluetooth or wifi or something (maybe cellular signals?) to identify and track people indoors. I think they pitched it to be used in malls or airports, but really could work anywhere. It was surprisingly robust.…

WiFi on phone sends periodic pings to discover new access points. MAC is unique...

That hasn't been true for years, both Apple and Android devices now use a random MAC for probing pings.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secb9cb3140c/...

https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-ran...

Re: undefined

#63
post #20

> How can I stop companies from getting my location data? The steps they list only cover gps data. In my final year at uni, during the capstone fair, I recall one group built a tracking system that relied on Bluetooth or wifi or something (maybe cellular signals?) to identify and track people indoors. I think they pitched it to be used in malls or airports, but really could work anywhere. It was surprisingly robust.…

This stopped working a lot of years ago, both Android and iOS are randomizing the MAC addresses.

Re: undefined

#64
post #34
post #13

Do not cary smartphones.

Dumbphones have the exact same problem, due to carrier-based location tracking tied to phone number.

Not nearly to the same degree of confidence/precision and without easy access by Google/Apple/Facebook/Advertising networks to this data.

Re: undefined

#65
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

Open source radios are the first step to privacy. We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to.

If you're really worried about this the only thing you can really do is not carry a phone, or carry one with a hardware radio switch and only turn it on when you want to use it. Of course you won't receive calls or messages, but that's not the end of the world, it's just like going back to the 1980s.

Re: undefined

#67
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

Open source radios are the first step to privacy. We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to.

The _only_ possible solution to this problem is government regulation. An open source radio on your phone does literally nothing when the phone networks are all hostile.

Re: undefined

#68
post #40
post #20

> How can I stop companies from getting my location data? The steps they list only cover gps data. In my final year at uni, during the capstone fair, I recall one group built a tracking system that relied on Bluetooth or wifi or something (maybe cellular signals?) to identify and track people indoors. I think they pitched it to be used in malls or airports, but really could work anywhere. It was surprisingly robust.…

Your shoes could have embedded RFID tags (perhaps originally intended as a payment/anti-theft method by the store you bought them from) that can be used to fingerprint/track you everywhere.

There is zero chance a company would get away with that. Someone will find out their shoes have a pcb and battery in them.

Re: undefined

#69
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumbphones have the exact same problem, due to carrier-based location tracking tied to phone number.

Not nearly to the same degree of confidence/precision and without easy access by Google/Apple/Facebook/Advertising networks to this data.

They are accurate to the tower which is far too accurate for comfort.

Re: undefined

#70

It's baffling that this information is worth so much. I'm curious as to what marketing is being custom sent to me based on the location data they get from me. I actually leave me phone at home most of the time if I'm going to the store or a nearby restaurant but I always take it with me when I go hiking. Even though I turn it off at the trailhead to save the battery in case I need it later, I'm sure I'm identified in…

It is mainly used by hedge funds. I have heard it is used by some marketing firms, I have heard that some corporates use it for data on their own properties/competitors (the former may not be obvious, but some malls may do this to check on tenants, malls also usually have their own tracking stuff on site too btw) but the main user are hedge funds. Not all of this data is useful by itself but it is useful once you int…

What do hedge funds do with location data?
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