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Re: undefined

#41
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

Open source radios are the first step to privacy. We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to.

Re: undefined

#42
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

This is super cool. It's awesome to see someone trying to tackle this problem. I assume no carrier/mvno will adapt this but I'd be extremely happy to be wrong. I would instantly switch to a provider that made use of this tech.

Re: undefined

#43
It's baffling that this information is worth so much. I'm curious as to what marketing is being custom sent to me based on the location data they get from me. I actually leave me phone at home most of the time if I'm going to the store or a nearby restaurant but I always take it with me when I go hiking. Even though I turn it off at the trailhead to save the battery in case I need it later, I'm sure I'm identified in some database somewhere as a person who goes hiking, but then what? I'm already an REI member. Maybe environmental groups could send me political and fund raising pleas (they don't but I guess they could).

Re: undefined

#44
post #20

> How can I stop companies from getting my location data? The steps they list only cover gps data. In my final year at uni, during the capstone fair, I recall one group built a tracking system that relied on Bluetooth or wifi or something (maybe cellular signals?) to identify and track people indoors. I think they pitched it to be used in malls or airports, but really could work anywhere. It was surprisingly robust.…

WiFi on phone sends periodic pings to discover new access points. MAC is unique...

Librem 5 smartphone has hardware kill switches for WiFi/Bluetooth and cellular modem.

Re: undefined

#45
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

> fwiw, Wired wrote up our work on this several weeks back...

Link to research paper: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec21-schmitt.pdf

Re: undefined

#46
post #3

It's more like a trillion dollar market. The actual players are Google, Facebook, and Apple... these startups are just location data gnats. Location data is probably the single best demographic info to have to make money, and at least 3 companies in the world have basically everyone's phone bugged. Ads, maps, social... all totally dependent on location data from users.

When I lived in my car in SF a waymo would pass me right when I left and at many key intersections and at my destinations. I know it was not random but I don’t go down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out how they did it. If I get proof then I’d be vindicated. I tweeted about it as a human rights violation often, having no way to retreat. I long ago took it as a given that we have no privacy. I can only imagine wh…

It's good that you are managing to ignore these. However, while is common knowledge that Google collects data on everyone, informed opinion seems to be that they do so on a wholesale basis rather than having their vans follow individuals, which would likely be prohibitively expensive. You may want to think about the possibility that you are having some symptoms of one of the mental health problems which cause paranoia. If so, it may be a good idea to get it checked out, as they can be really hard to deal with once set in.

Re: undefined

#48
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

LTE will give you a datapoint roughly every 2 minutes. Accuracy will depend on the density of the LTE towers (150m - 2km). So besides Google, FB, etc. Telecom operators also play a role in this space. Remember that GPS might not always be turned on while your phone pinging cell phone towers happens all the time. With future 5G implementations this accuracy will be even further increased because the antenna range is short and the density will be much larger.

Re: undefined

#49
post #3

It's more like a trillion dollar market. The actual players are Google, Facebook, and Apple... these startups are just location data gnats. Location data is probably the single best demographic info to have to make money, and at least 3 companies in the world have basically everyone's phone bugged. Ads, maps, social... all totally dependent on location data from users.

When I lived in my car in SF a waymo would pass me right when I left and at many key intersections and at my destinations. I know it was not random but I don’t go down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out how they did it. If I get proof then I’d be vindicated. I tweeted about it as a human rights violation often, having no way to retreat. I long ago took it as a given that we have no privacy. I can only imagine wh…

I understand you went through a very difficult experience being homeless, but I can assure you that Google isn’t interested in you in particular. Google casts a wide net when it collects data, having Waymo vehicles and vans following you (or any other single person) would be rather expensive. They collect data on all of us, just not quite as actively as physical surveillance.

I’ve been in a survival frame of mind before and it can feel like the whole world is against you. It’s hard to trust anyone. Living in a car in SF (or any city) would give me massive anxiety, there’s no “safe place” where you can fully let your guard down.

I know you don’t want to hear this, and have probably heard it before, but your paranoia may be a sign of untreated mental illness. Stress can trigger mental health issues, and treatment may help. I also understand that the medications have some pretty bad side effect profiles, and being labeled mentally ill means you get treated completely different than everyone else (in healthcare in particular) I also understand that your experience of feeling surveilled felt very real to you, the hard part of treating the disorders is that it’s hard to accept what you experience isn’t real, since it’s very real to you.

I encourage you to consider seeking help, but understand why you’d be hesitant. Take care.

Re: undefined

#50
post #29

This is a layered problem; Apple and Google (for better and worse) are best positioned to deal with the app ecosystem. But there's the mobile provider piece of this -- the tower knows where you are because currently it has to, and the network providers are part of this location data market, selling location data for everyone, whether they use leaky apps or not. This is worse with 5G due to smaller cells and thus fine…

Open source radios are the first step to privacy. We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to.

>We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to.

How does that help? If you do that the best you can do is obfuscate your location by a mile.

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