Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say • Hacker News Board

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#191

Post by outworlder » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #140

nradov wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city of San Jose is forcing a local airport to close largely over lead concerns. However research has shown that children living near the airport don't actually have higher blood lead levels. https://sanjosespotlight.com/san-jose-airport-lead-levels-ar... Although the absolute risk is probably small the aviation industry should have moved faster on this issue. Airplanes last longer than cars but they can't expect…

The county of Santa Clara, which owns the airport, is closing it because it is an uneconomical waste of a huge amount of phenomenally valuable land, and it is only 5 miles from a real airport. It serves no legitimate purpose in the society and economy of the Bay Area.

> The county of Santa Clara, which owns the airport, is closing it because it is an uneconomical waste of a huge amount of phenomenally valuable land, and it is only 5 miles from a real airport. It serves no legitimate purpose in the society and economy of the Bay Area.

That is false. It is a "relief" airport precisely because it is close to SJC. That allows slower traffic to land in RHRV instead of SJC. It is a real airport. Has two runways, air traffic control and what have you. What's the threshold for a 'real airport'?

There's a lot of "phenomenally valuable" land nearby with only dirt and maybe trees growing on it. There are parks and wilderness areas. Should we turn them into businesses and houses just because real state values are up?

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#192

Post by Metacelsus » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #169

giantg2 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it can depend on other factors too. For example, lead crystal drinkwater is considered safe as long as you aren't leaving the liquid in there for long periods of time. It's possible that's similar to the dishes. Stuff like leaded fuel exhaust or paint flakes are more likely to be ingested/absorbed.

This is why the swabs are an important tool in addition to the XRF. If the swab turns red, then by definition it's wiping mobile lead from the surface of the object you're testing. Using electrical cords as an example, years ago I went through my house and swabbed all of the cords. If I found a cord that turned a swab red, I either threw the thing away if it was cheap, like an old coffee grinder, or I replaced the co…

You can also make your own with sodium rhodonizate (which you can get at many chemical supply companies)

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#193

Post by creato » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #129

da_chicken wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In terms of overall welfare, an additional dollar in the pocket of a typical union worker is going to be more welfare enhancing than that additional dollar in the pocket of the typical owner. This is from just basic diminishing marginal utility of the dollar. Remarkably few people seem to truly understand what "marginal propensity to consume" actually means. Economically, money saved is money lost. Money invested i…

I'll admit while I'm inclined to believe that it's better to distribute money to workers rather than investors, I don't understand the economic mechanics that makes this true. I do understand that the rich aren't gong to spend as much as the middle and lower classes, but I don't have a good answer for the predictable trickle-down rebuttal: the wealthy will invest rather than spend, and that investment funds jobs whic…

> I'll admit while I'm inclined to believe that it's better to distribute money to workers rather than investors, I don't understand the economic mechanics that makes this true.

It's probably more true now than during most of history, but it's not always true.

It probably was true in the Reagan era that trickle-down "worked", because there was a lot of opportunity for large scale capital investment to improve the economy and make things people wanted (and provide jobs in the process). That doesn't seem as true now. Investors already have an excess amount of capital they don't know what to do with (and so are just doing things like buying houses en masse).

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#194

Post by outworlder » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #111

cobookman wrote: post #46

It's shameful the EPA still hasn't banned leaded aviation fuel.

The city of San Jose is forcing a local airport to close largely over lead concerns. However research has shown that children living near the airport don't actually have higher blood lead levels. https://sanjosespotlight.com/san-jose-airport-lead-levels-ar... Although the absolute risk is probably small the aviation industry should have moved faster on this issue. Airplanes last longer than cars but they can't expect…

> At some point airplane owners need to be forced to upgrade their engines, or quit flying.

It's not about the owners, at all. Airplanes already have a limit on how many hours their engines have, after that it needs to be overhauled or replaced.

It's just that, for many planes, there aren't really any options available, as other engines are not certified for their planes.

Even for the planes that _are_ certified and can be changed to use other fuels, most airports don't have them available (even "mogas", which is automotive gasoline with no ethanol, is difficult to find).

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#195

Post by nate_meurer » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

caeril wrote: post #190

nate_meurer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, a lot of PVC wire insulation contains no lead. For example, all wire meant to be sold in the EU must be ROHS complaint, and thus contain no lead. Many US manufacturers are also compliant, and the number is growing. Many manufacturers state this explicitly on their websites (e.g. Tripp Lite and Southwire, to take two random examples). Many others can be identified by either an RoHS designation or lack of CA Prop 6…

> all wire meant to be sold in the EU must be ROHS complaint Just an aside, this is a personal gripe. I grew up on lead solder, making Heathkit projects with my dad. I tried re-engaging with the electronics hobby as an adult, decades later, in a world filled with ROHS solder, and I have to say it is a huge pain in the ass to work with. Adhesion, balling issues, etc, regardless of core type, flux, etc, even on nice co…

> "And to my knowledge, my IQ did not suffer."

I suspect the opposite. I grew up eating off of lead-contaminated Lenox dishes, playing with fishing weights and mercury from broken thermostats, and other stimulating but toxic activities. I strongly suspect these things account for at least some of the attention deficit and impulse control issues I now struggle with as an adult.

I'm sure your IQ is more than adequate, but you have no way of knowing what it would be if your brain was kept cleaner in your youth. For my part, I'd love to be smarter.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#196

Post by nate_meurer » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

Metacelsus wrote: post #192

nate_meurer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the swabs are an important tool in addition to the XRF. If the swab turns red, then by definition it's wiping mobile lead from the surface of the object you're testing. Using electrical cords as an example, years ago I went through my house and swabbed all of the cords. If I found a cord that turned a swab red, I either threw the thing away if it was cheap, like an old coffee grinder, or I replaced the co…

You can also make your own with sodium rhodonizate (which you can get at many chemical supply companies)

The LeadCheck swabs are super nice because they package the reagent in binary form in separate sealed glass capsules. As far as I know, this gives the product an indefinite shelf life. I'm still using a batch of LeadChecks that bought from Ebay fifteen years ago.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#197

Post by ch4s3 » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #168

ch4s3 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can treat it with chelation or EDTA. The drugs bind to lead and your body clears it out via the kidneys. Works well if you catch it early. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisonin...

Is there a similar treatment for mercury?

DMPS (2,3 Dimercapto-1-Propanesulfonate)

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#198

Post by jeffbee » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #191

jeffbee wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The county of Santa Clara, which owns the airport, is closing it because it is an uneconomical waste of a huge amount of phenomenally valuable land, and it is only 5 miles from a real airport. It serves no legitimate purpose in the society and economy of the Bay Area.

> The county of Santa Clara, which owns the airport, is closing it because it is an uneconomical waste of a huge amount of phenomenally valuable land, and it is only 5 miles from a real airport. It serves no legitimate purpose in the society and economy of the Bay Area. That is false. It is a "relief" airport precisely because it is close to SJC . That allows slower traffic to land in RHRV instead of SJC. It is a rea…

It's not a real airport because 100% of its operations are wankers flying around in their obsolete mosquitos. The Bay Area has a superabundance of GA airports and RHV is superfluous.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#199

Post by mythrwy » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #148

ljf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK suburban soil can also be bad as people used to throw fireplace ashes in their gardens, which can concentrate contaminants. I ate from my home allotment for years until a neighbour told me he had recently tested his soil and found it heavy with lead and other rubbish.

did he find a way to de-pollute ?

Soaking the soil with EDTA solution might do it.

(EDTA is also used medically for heavy metal poisoning).

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#200

Post by Cd00d » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #81

kasey_junk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For plumbing specifically you _also_ have to worry about every link in the chain from your house to the water source. Perhaps non-intuitively just knowing if there are lead pipes because they can develop a protective sediment layer that prevents the lead from touching the water. Anecdotally, we had a major city water line project in our neighborhood that _raised_ our lead levels because it disturbed that sediment pro…

The right solution is installing a reverse osmosis filter system (which includes mechanical and charcoal filters) at the house or tap level. Water's not one of those things people should cheap out on. We, as a society, can afford to not have this be an issue. We're not quite to that realization yet. To be clear: I'm not saying the burden of cost should be solely put on renters/homeowners.

Can you go into this in a bit of detail? I thought reverse osmosis water wasn't great to drink, because it's essentially de-ionized water. So, the water has no choice but to rip ions out of your cells. But, I've never looked into biology enough to understand.

I did work in a lab back in the day where one of the students was filling his water bottle from the DI tap, because he preferred the taste. He didn't drop dead or anything.

I clearly have just enough of the details to not understand.