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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#791

Post by eternalban »

myself248 wrote: post #670
oauea wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's insane here? Waking the machine up is a legitimate use case, and it's easily traceable and configurable.

A machine doing something I didn't tell it to is insane. I am the user. I use the machine, not the other way around.

There are all sorts of things a machine does without user input. It is simply not possible to have a user OK each and every design decision for a machine.

And running a configuration command is in fact you telling it what to do.

So the actual issue is open-systems vs walled-gardens in system design and how it surfaces in consumer products. The only thing Windows can do is force you to review each and every device driver on install for e.g. can wake machine. A non-starter for a consumer OS.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#792

Post by nikau »

ypcx wrote: post #788
nikau wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, use a macbook and carbon X1. Only thing the Macbook does noticeably better is speaker quality which isn't surprising given the size difference.

How about sleep, trackpad support/configurability, battery endurance, 4k display support, external monitor support? I've seen complaints about all of these wrt Linux on X1. Macbook now has the M1 going for it.

I run WSL2 on my X1, everything works perfectly.

apt-get is much nicer than brew and all its stupid cask/taps stuff that takes forever for packages to install.

With wslutils installed I have "open" and "pbcopy" equivalents configured which were the only 2 things missing from osx that I use a lot.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#793

Post by shartacct »

Does anyone even use hibernate in 2021...? Every windows/linux machine I've tried using it on just results in a terrible experience. Generally my system just hangs or takes 10+ minutes to save to disk or restore (despite having a modern workstation with 32GB+ of RAM and a nearly empty high end NVMe SSD).

It's been the first thing I've disabled for years, power management is decent enough that a desktop system will draw a marginal amount of power at idle even if you don't use suspend or hibernate.

Of course, on my macbook it 'just works' and I've left everything default in terms of power management, I assume it does something similar to hibernate/S3 sleep but it always comes back instantly and without draining the battery while closed. I carry it in a backpack commonly and have never had issues with it being hot when I take it out.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#794

Post by Dayshine »

shartacct wrote: post #793

Does anyone even use hibernate in 2021...? Every windows/linux machine I've tried using it on just results in a terrible experience. Generally my system just hangs or takes 10+ minutes to save to disk or restore (despite having a modern workstation with 32GB+ of RAM and a nearly empty high end NVMe SSD). It's been the first thing I've disabled for years, power management is decent enough that a desktop system will dr…

On desktops I've never had a problem with hibernate either with windows or Linux.

On HDD it takes time, but no longer than booting from cold.

On SSD it's less than ten seconds to hibernate or boot.

I've had to tweak wake on lan and disable mouse waking pc etc but that's not different for sleep

Laptops however are a nightmare and just don't or won't hibernate properly

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#795

Post by rantingdemon »

wutbrodo wrote: post #732
cryptonector wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of respect for users is really shocking lately.

This isn't a "lately" thing. In 2007, a friend of mine postponed his Windows updates often enough that the machine just restarted to install updates _in the middle of the day while he was using it_. This wasn't a glitch either: there was an Update pop-up that just informed him "fuck you I'm restarting in X minutes". I'm in awe at how much contempt some guy at Microsoft must have for users and their use-cases to conce…

I'm in two minds on this. As a user, it does irritate me that I'm forced to put all my work on hold to install updates.

However, as a security professional, I think the general population doesn't understand just how critical it is to stay up to date with software updates. Sometimes we have to force them!

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#796

Post by rm445 »

thesuitonym wrote: post #612
fxtentacle wrote: post #446

I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wak…

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. This whole post is actually pretty confusing to me. I don't use Windows that frequently myself, but my work laptop, my wife's laptop, my child's laptop, and my Surface Pro 1 all have Windows 10 on them, and…

Close my Mac, take it somewhere, open it up - there everything is.

Close my work laptop, take it to the office, open it up - it's hot to the touch, stuck on the Dell high temperature warning screen, and needs to cool down and reboot.

Of course it would be crazy for me to keep repeating this scenario (I tried changing the hibernation settings, and now just shut it down) - but we can wish for it to be better, especially since it's obviously possible.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#797

Post by washadjeffmad »

naikrovek wrote: post #726
mjaniczek wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic: > or when my WiFi router does its daily reboot. Damn, I think that might fix 99% of the issues I have with my WiFi router.

I have a $300 Ubiquiti Dream Machine and that thing CANT be scheduled to reboot. doesn't matter because Ethernet dies twice a day, and I need to use my phone to get to the admin page to restart the thing. most annoying and expensive router I've ever owned. I DO NOT understand how all routers I have ever owned are total garbage, but they all have been.

Put it behind a UPS and buy one of their smart plugs. It'll detect internet outages and reset the connected device automatically.

Also, I buy and deploy a lot of Unifi/ER equipment and that doesn't happen. I think you've noticed there's a common factor in your final statement, though.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#798

Post by masto »

radicalbyte wrote: post #485
fxtentacle wrote: post #446

I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wak…

This is the literal reason I switched to OSX. I dislike the impractical design of Macbooks - horrible connectivity and no way to swap batteries. However the combination of 15 hrs battery life + closing the lid and it not melting a hole in my bag trumps any negatives.

I have had multiple Mac laptops that were burning hot when I pulled them out of my bag. My iPhone also occasionally tries to melt my pocket. These are not issues that Apple is immune to.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#799

Post by masto »

shbooms wrote: post #760
andrepd wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why isn't there simply a Terminate All button?

there is, sort of, but it's got one or two extra steps (and most folks probably don't know it exists). 1. Press Cmd+Option+Escape to bring up the Force Quit menu 2. Press Cmd+A to select all running apps 3. Click the "Force Quit" Button to force quit all apps

And then it doesn’t work, so after half an hour of staring at a grey screen, you give up and hold down the power button.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#800

Post by Tuna-Fish »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #704
myself248 wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A machine doing something I didn't tell it to is insane. I am the user. I use the machine, not the other way around.

The hardware and software making the decision to wake the device isn't necessarily privy to concepts like "user" or "intent"; At that layer, it's all just signals. Someone has to design the system to interpret what those signals/events are supposed to lead to (e.g. should connecting a cable to a closed laptop wake it up? What if the thing on the other end of that cable is a mouse, or a storage device, or a charger, o…

But all of those cases should be governed by a very simple overarching rule: If the laptop lid is closed, assume that it is in a closed bag with no cooling available to it.

Because that is the usecase that hibernate is for. It makes laptops convenient by allowing you to just close the lid, put it in a bag, go somewhere, take it out of the bag, and then open it and continue working. If you need to tell people that they need to shut down their computers properly before putting them into bags, you have just produced a vastly inferior product.

This is an area where Microsoft desperately needs a Chief-making-it-not-suck-Officer. Someone who can just take that surface laptop, notice that some idiot actually wrote that you are supposed to shut it down instead of hibernating to put it in a bag, and yell at people until the product is fixed. Because right now it's broken.

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