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Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

theguardian.com

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Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#81

Post by nickff »

Quinner wrote: post #74
anonchan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced labor described in the article is unjustifiable. But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

Our criminal justice system is designed to incarcerate black people. A third of black people will be incarcerated at some point in their lives. You're six times as likely to be incarcerated if you're black than if you're white.

... And about ten or eleven times more likely to be incarcerated if you're male than female. Does this mean that the 'justice system' was twice as well 'designed to incarcerate' men?

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#82

Post by jdavis703 »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #68
jdavis703 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of cases we can taste the difference. Organic vs. conventional chicken has a different mouthfeel. And Wagyu Beef vs. regular beef also has a similar different feel. However I also buy free-range organic eggs and milk. I’d have no idea if those products were mislabeled. But it also makes me feel better I’m not contributing to cruel factory farming and antibiotic abuse. If that’s not the case, oh well. I did a…

You can't pass off non-Wagyu beef as Wagyu beef unless the consumer doesn't know what Wagyu beef is. I totally disagree with the organic vs conventional chicken argument. I would suggest that the difference you notice is the breed of the chicken. Organic vs non-organic and free-range vs non-free-range is not something where you'd say that there is an information arbitrage opportunity. The concept was that this analys…

You could very well be right about chicken breeds. I never thought about different breeds tasting different. I know there are super-sized industrial ones which taste horrible. But what are good small chicken breeds? And would a fancy/organic supermarket butcher be a good source for this?

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#83

Post by whycombinater »

Quinner wrote: post #74
anonchan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced labor described in the article is unjustifiable. But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

Our criminal justice system is designed to incarcerate black people. A third of black people will be incarcerated at some point in their lives. You're six times as likely to be incarcerated if you're black than if you're white.

93% are men, 7% women.

Our criminal justice system is designed to incarcerate men.

edit: High five to sibling comment.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#84

Post by m463 »

wyre wrote: post #73
m463 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much "crab" in restaurants is crab. On the other hand, I wonder how much "seafood soup" is actually the real deal (sharkfin soup)

Why does seafood soup imply shark fin soup? Are you not concerned with the ethical concerns around sharkfin soup?

I was told restaurants that used to serve sharkfin soup served "seafood soup" after sharkfin was made illegal.

The gist of what I was saying was that crab -> fake, and ironically "seafood soup" was actually genuine sharkfin

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#85

Post by fakedang »

yorwba wrote: post #66
pphysch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

I think this Chinese government website might not have been compromised: http://www.chinapeace.gov.cn/chinapeace/c25030/2012-06/19/co... A man surnamed Ibrahim (so probably member of a Turkic Muslim minority) was sentenced to 10 years in prison and a fine of 200,000 RMB for illegally importing and selling illegal religious and/or pirated publications. Whether that's evidence of "China imprisoning populations solely f…

It's very possible though that the guy was selling "illegal" Qurans, prayer mats and incantation beads, all of which are illegal material in Communist China. There's no chance in hell he could have legalized that business whatsoever, simply because the Chinese government does not take a liking to the Muslim faith (partly because they can't control it like they control the churches due to its decentralized nature).

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#86

Post by jorblumesea »

pessimizer wrote: post #65
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your equating prison in the US to the camps in Xinjiang?

Or equating forced prison labor to forced prison labor.

Someone being in prison simply for being of a certain ethnicity isn't the same as someone being in prison for crimes. Even if the root of those crimes might be complex socio-economic factors like discrimination and income inequality.

In addition, the level of human rights prisoners get in the US is far beyond what any Uighur experiences. Right to a lawyer, right to appeal convictions, visits from family members. It's really a false equivalency.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#87

Post by r00fus »

jorblumesea wrote: post #86
pessimizer wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or equating forced prison labor to forced prison labor.

Someone being in prison simply for being of a certain ethnicity isn't the same as someone being in prison for crimes. Even if the root of those crimes might be complex socio-economic factors like discrimination and income inequality. In addition, the level of human rights prisoners get in the US is far beyond what any Uighur experiences. Right to a lawyer, right to appeal convictions, visits from family members. It's…

> Someone being in prison simply for being of a certain ethnicity isn't the same as someone being in prison for crimes.

Even when policing in the US is so completely racially motivated? Driving (hell, biking/walking/breathing) while black is a reality of the US carceral system.

The last year has really shown the world that US policing and incarceration is completely broken and highly resistant to even governance change (who's in charge of whom?)

I'm not saying what China does with the Uyghur population is right. Just that the US is not far away. Hell, look at the border detention centers.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#88

Post by pphysch »

yorwba wrote: post #66
pphysch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

I think this Chinese government website might not have been compromised: http://www.chinapeace.gov.cn/chinapeace/c25030/2012-06/19/co... A man surnamed Ibrahim (so probably member of a Turkic Muslim minority) was sentenced to 10 years in prison and a fine of 200,000 RMB for illegally importing and selling illegal religious and/or pirated publications. Whether that's evidence of "China imprisoning populations solely f…

This doesn't remotely support the claim of genocide. The guy was actually accused, tried and convicted of a crime, probably involving the distribution of jihadi material.

The crime of illegally distributing documents would be brutally prosecuted in the US, possibly outside the legal system. Whether it's jihadi material or pirated Disney films.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#89

Post by pempem »

jorblumesea wrote: post #86
pessimizer wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or equating forced prison labor to forced prison labor.

Someone being in prison simply for being of a certain ethnicity isn't the same as someone being in prison for crimes. Even if the root of those crimes might be complex socio-economic factors like discrimination and income inequality. In addition, the level of human rights prisoners get in the US is far beyond what any Uighur experiences. Right to a lawyer, right to appeal convictions, visits from family members. It's…

A version of your comment from the PRC perspective would be:

"These people are at the wrong mix of discrimination and are poor because they refuse to follow our laws and participate in our system. They have a right to convert, a right to appeal, and a right to negotiate by turning in family and friends who refuse to follow our laws."

In fact discrimination would be the basis on which they are putting people to work, in camps.

Additionally and separately: every single thing you've mentioned (right to a lawyer, right to appeal, even visits and costs of phone calls) have been shown to be stacked against low income, blue collar, or minority citizens repeatedly. A quick google search of "right to [x]" "poor defendants" or "black defendants" will clean this misapprehension right up for you. https://lmgtfy.app/?q=right+to+a+lawyer+%2B+poor+defendants

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#90

Post by WhySoGullible »

random314 wrote: post #41
pphysch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

Is that so hard to find? Here is a list of academics jailed for their ethnicity, as part if the genocide. https://shahit.biz/supp/list_003.pdf

This is what Gene Bunin, the author of that list, had to say about his own database:

> "we have over 10000+ documented people" was the initial comment. Neither boasting nor saying 100% are credible."

Sounds incredibly reliable to me.

[1] https://twitter.com/shahitbiz/status/1306554296088096769

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