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Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

theguardian.com

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Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#61

Post by vharuck »

wil421 wrote: post #10
ilamont wrote: post #2

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US…

Just to nitpick slightly there is no such thing as white tuna. What’s called white tuna is always escolar. Albacore is a pinkish or off white tuna but I’ve never seen it listed as white tuna at a restaurant.

Out of curiosity, I wondered if the FDA agreed. And they do:

https://www.cfsanappsexternal.fda.gov/scripts/fdcc/index.cfm...

The FDA does warn against using the name "white tuna," but they sure don't seem to care in practice.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#62

Post by willcipriano »

kaesar14 wrote: post #57
pphysch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…

They should be paid market rate for their labor. Why should prison take away your basic financial rights. Edit: it's disgusting to me that anyone downvoted this. what do you believe, if not that people have a right to the fruits of their labor, even as criminals? believing otherwise is believing in slavery and exploitation.

It shouldn't also take away from the rights of others. When prison labor is obtained below minimum wage, or under conditions or terms that workers would not accept, you hurt low income workers and drive down their wages in aggregate.

In my opinion, prison labor should only be used for public works. Cleaning up parks and that sort of thing. Giving a captive labor stream to private enterprise is only good for the owners of the select few firms who can take advantage of it.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#63

Post by vkou »

random314 wrote: post #34
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #5

> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.

That's unfortunate. However, folks in the US prison system have been convicted of crimes.

The Gulags were also full of people who have committed crimes. Some of those crimes were even non-political!

I can't say that's the argument that I'd use to defend slavery, though...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#64

Post by paxys »

ilamont wrote: post #2

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US…

Also makes me think that if two different varieties of fish, steak etc. are so indistinguishable to the end consumer that you have to rely on genetic analysis to separate them, what warrants the massively inflated price of one over the other?

If I order a $500 bottle of wine but am served from a $50 bottle, and neither I nor anyone else at the table can tell the difference, did I not still get the $500 "experience" I wanted?

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#65

Post by pessimizer »

RegnisGnaw wrote: post #6
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #5

> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.

So your equating prison in the US to the camps in Xinjiang?

Or equating forced prison labor to forced prison labor.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#66

Post by yorwba »

pphysch wrote: post #19
anonchan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced labor described in the article is unjustifiable. But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

I think this Chinese government website might not have been compromised: http://www.chinapeace.gov.cn/chinapeace/c25030/2012-06/19/co...

A man surnamed Ibrahim (so probably member of a Turkic Muslim minority) was sentenced to 10 years in prison and a fine of 200,000 RMB for illegally importing and selling illegal religious and/or pirated publications.

Whether that's evidence of "China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture" depends on how much emphasis you put on the "solely". If he'd actually been licensed, he probably wouldn't have been arrested, but on the other hand I know a woman selling all kinds of Taoist snakeoil, and I don't think anyone's bothered to investigate her, so his religion likely played a role.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#67

Post by ketzo »

paxys wrote: post #64
ilamont wrote: post #2

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US…

Also makes me think that if two different varieties of fish, steak etc. are so indistinguishable to the end consumer that you have to rely on genetic analysis to separate them, what warrants the massively inflated price of one over the other? If I order a $500 bottle of wine but am served from a $50 bottle, and neither I nor anyone else at the table can tell the difference, did I not still get the $500 "experience" I…

I mean, to be fair, it's not like you're sampling the fish at the market. Plus, most people don't assume they're being lied to; your thought might very well be, "huh, this is some pretty bad Atlantic cod" instead of "this must be the inferior Pacific cod!"

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#68

Post by OldHand2018 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #53
OldHand2018 wrote: post #50

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chine…

In a lot of cases we can taste the difference. Organic vs. conventional chicken has a different mouthfeel. And Wagyu Beef vs. regular beef also has a similar different feel. However I also buy free-range organic eggs and milk. I’d have no idea if those products were mislabeled. But it also makes me feel better I’m not contributing to cruel factory farming and antibiotic abuse. If that’s not the case, oh well. I did a…

You can't pass off non-Wagyu beef as Wagyu beef unless the consumer doesn't know what Wagyu beef is.

I totally disagree with the organic vs conventional chicken argument. I would suggest that the difference you notice is the breed of the chicken.

Organic vs non-organic and free-range vs non-free-range is not something where you'd say that there is an information arbitrage opportunity. The concept was that this analysis could be used to identify opportunity, not that every single instance of label fraud was an opportunity. Sheesh.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#69

Post by 0x000000001 »

ilamont wrote: post #2

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US…

The fake fish situation is well documented in the book Real Food/Fake Food

http://www.realfoodfakefood.com/real-food-fake-food-book-by-...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#70

Post by 0x000000001 »

random314 wrote: post #34
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #5

> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.

That's unfortunate. However, folks in the US prison system have been convicted of crimes.

Criminals are still humans and we should be using every effort to rehabilitate them and make them valuable members of society and contributors to the economy in a far more significant way
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