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Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

theguardian.com

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Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#41

Post by random314 »

pphysch wrote: post #19
anonchan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced labor described in the article is unjustifiable. But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

Is that so hard to find? Here is a list of academics jailed for their ethnicity, as part if the genocide.

https://shahit.biz/supp/list_003.pdf

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#42

Post by joyeuse6701 »

pphysch wrote: post #19
anonchan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced labor described in the article is unjustifiable. But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

Evidence is hard to come by because the CCP isn’t forthcoming in the least, but we do have the investigative journalism of the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/podcasts/uighurs-coverage...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#43

Post by pphysch »

nosianu wrote: post #37
pphysch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so far you've linked Adrian Zenz and Raytheon-mouthpiece ASPI. Is it really so much to ask for a source that doesn't have an obvious and massive Conflict of Interest in destabilizing China?

> have an obvious and massive Conflict of Interest in destabilizing China? If only you would apply what you demand of others to your own brazen statements.

Rigorous, fact-based scrutiny is "brazen"? Ridiculous. Is this Reddit, or HN?

Please stay on topic: where are your primary sources that don't have a massive Conflict of Interest? It's okay to admit you don't have any.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#44

Post by rytor718 »

random314 wrote: post #34
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #5

> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.

That's unfortunate. However, folks in the US prison system have been convicted of crimes.

So slavery is legal as long as the slave is a criminal? I'm not following what's being implied.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#45

Post by pphysch »

random314 wrote: post #36
pphysch wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The allegation that Xinjiang has prisons and are allowing prisoners to work is almost certainly true. Like virtually every other major economy. The allegation that the Xinjiang prisoners are actually innocent people being ethnically/religiously cleansed and forced into slavery has extremely little basis in reality, relying completely on claims from a tiny, unaccountable clique of Washington DC based ideologues (Zenz,…

Entire university department professors have been wiped out and sent to prison https://shahit.biz/supp/list_003.pdf

...According to Radio Free Asia, a literal propaganda arm of the US Government. Yawn.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#46

Post by pphysch »

random314 wrote: post #41
pphysch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

Is that so hard to find? Here is a list of academics jailed for their ethnicity, as part if the genocide. https://shahit.biz/supp/list_003.pdf

Wow, you unironically just linked a Radio Free Asia[1] rag after I requested sources that don't have a "State Department sized CoI".

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Radio_Free_Asia&m...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#47

Post by pphysch »

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #42
pphysch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture Do you have any evidence for this claim that isn't compromised by a State Department-sized CoI? I'm genuinely curious.

Evidence is hard to come by because the CCP isn’t forthcoming in the least, but we do have the investigative journalism of the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/podcasts/uighurs-coverage...

An I missing something or NYT is just linking to Zenz's and Allen-Ebrahimian's dubious claims?

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#48

Post by rytor718 »

ilamont wrote: post #17
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #5

> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.

Not just cotton. Fighting fires. Making License plates. Doing laundry. The difference is U.S. prisoners are convicted felons. Many volunteer for these jobs, such as the firefighters in California. Others are paid a small wage for their work or get reduced sentences. In China, it's members of specific minority groups such as Uyghurs who are singled out and put into concentration camps ... not because of what they have…

As another commenter also observed, "volunteer" is a very poor description of the situation. What exactly are the options here for the prisoner involved?

And I think this is worth distinguishing: a slave is always prisoner of their enslaver. The reverse need not be the case, and yet our system turns prisoners into slaves through forced labor. There's no volunteerism involved here. It's about those with power, those without. Slavery can be understood best by how the powerful behave, not the powerless. No one would volunteer for this or prisoners wouldn't have to be forced to do it.

I'm always disappointed that the lessons of slavery still aren't understood in this country. It's painful and shameful.

EDIT: clarity of terms

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#49

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

anonchan wrote: post #14
pphysch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, US prison camps are definitely worse due to their scale and history. > Many of these prisons had very recently been slave plantations, Angola and Mississippi State Penitentiary (known as Parchman Farm) among them. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... Uncomfortable truth. Will probably get flagged.

The forced labor described in the article is unjustifiable. But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

> But China imprisoning populations solely for having a different religion and culture is worse than America imprisoning people for (at least mostly) real criminal convictions.

My culture says that growing and smoking cannabis is good. The US disagrees and makes that nonviolent crime a felony. The Uyghur culture says that worshipping Allah is good. China disagrees and makes that nonviolent crime a felony.

What's the difference, exactly? What makes one criminal conviction "real" and the other not?

Our incarceration system is no less culture-bound when we have half a million people imprisoned (1 in 5 prisoners) for nonviolent drug crimes.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#50

Post by OldHand2018 »

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities.

Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be.

That specific Chinese beef producer is likely selling his product to a wholesaler at a standard (low) price. It is somewhere else in the supply chain that the mislabeling comes in - and that is the entity that makes the profit. If that beef producer was aware that his beef is selling at a much higher retail price, then he should be selling his product to the wholesaler at a much higher price. What prevents this from happening? Well, knowledge (and a marketing budget). There should be plenty of capital available to solve that problem :)

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