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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

dell.com

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#251

Post by d110af5ccf »

d110af5ccf wrote: post #208
sprayk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you use secure boot, you cannot use hibernation under fedora (or any Linux, afaik) since there is no way to "seal" the hibernation image from modification by an attacker who could mount the swap on another OS where they have root. this is regardless of disk encryption.

"Cannot" this is not true. It might not satisfy some sort of branding requirement but at the end of the day all a secure boot implementation does under the hood is to verify the kernel against the signing keys stored in the firmware before handing off control to it. The kernel can do whatever it pleases after that including granting you root access, joining a botnet, or, indeed, loading a hibernation image. As for se…

Huh TIL. Apparently the mainline kernel got a lockdown feature in version 5.4 that prohibits this. Ubuntu started shipping with a version of the patches in 2018. So I guess you'll have to disable that "helpful" feature first if you want to restore functionality.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#252

Post by Tsarbomb »

bsdubernerd wrote: post #241

This is not exclusive to Dell. Many laptop makers started to intentionally disable S3 for the "enhanced" S2. This was/is true of Lenovo as well: for roughly 6 months S3 was disabled completely on the then-new 3rd generation Yoga X1 laptops and Carbon counterparts. It was re-enabled thanks to linux user's uproar under the "legacy sleep mode" umbrella. Why would you go as far as disabling it, is beyond me. S3 is the sl…

It's not like the laptop generates any heat once you turn it off. It's more like its not vented out and is absorbed by other components that normally do not get warm. The total heat is not any greater.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#253

Post by JonyEpsilon »

adamcstephens wrote: post #221
bestouff wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an XPS 9500 under Linux (this is a >$4000 machine), no amount of fiddling with BIOS settings (which are few) or systemd/GNOME settings will make it work reliably: - short suspend time (it can't really stay overnight when suspended with a full battery) - sometimes it wakes up and overheats in the bag - very short battery duration when unplugged Apparently I'm not alone, and even under Windows it's a generalized…

Have you tried setting mem_sleep to deep? This helped on my Thinkpad until I got a new enough kernel that allowed the system to fully enter C10 state. https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/pm/sleep-... And if you want to dig into what happening in s2idle, https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-li...

I've tried that and while the laptop sleeps, I wasn't able to get it to wake up again. Which of course undermines the utility of it sleeping quite a bit :-) I didn't persist too much with it, so it's quite possible that one can make it work ... but from what I read when I was trying it, it might well be the case that BIOS support for S3 sleep just isn't there.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#254

Post by nosianu »

kblev wrote: post #188
zelphirkalt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to tur…

Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release and Microsoft keeps removing more and more controls. Just a few days ago I spent hours trying to fix the constant wake-ups. This time it was a waketimer set by the StartMenuExperienceHost.exe process! [1] Microsoft already removed the Power Management tabs in Device Manager for most devices (mouse, etc.). They also remo…

> Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release

I resorted to removing the power plug from the PC every evening after it kept turning itself on during the night semi-randomly. It was in "suspend to disk" mode, whatever that is in more technical power-save jargon terms, not just "suspend-to-ram".

I spent a significant amount of time going through Windows event logs to find what caused the wake-ups, fixed some, others were too broad to do anything about it. The settings are useless. So is the Microsoft help forum. I won't even try to ask Dell (Dell 8500 PC), they are only good at sending replacement hardware but unable to answer anything related to software (as long as they do the former I came to accept the latter).

I too had my (also Dell) laptop overheat after I had suspended it, thinking it was turned off. It was very hot when I took it out of the bag later, fortunately it was just in time. It seems this mishap caught a lot of people off guard.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#255

Post by comeonseriously »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

Ironically, the reason S3 is not available is because of Microsoft.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#256

Post by mwexler »

Have we really evolved to the state that laptop portability is an extra feature and not part of the design criteria for the modern laptop? That the sleep capability of laptops, present in various forms since the 90s, should no longer be used even though it's the default when the lid is closed?

I've been a fan of Dell for many years, against so much evidence of what a joke they've become, but this issue may finally tip me over the edge.

Any name brand PCs you trust to buy for family members who want a name brand and the perceived value that provides? (Besides Apple, I guess).

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#257

Post by vjancik »

As an owner of XPS 15 9560, I can tell you that the XPS line is a gift that keeps giving. 6 generations of XPS laptops since 2021 and they barely fixed most of the overheating issues in that time period, while charging premium prices for each barely-functioning product along the way.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#258

Post by comeonseriously »

jiggawatts wrote: post #231
cm2187 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed that it wakes from sleep for windows updates now, which not only is annoying (Bluetooth devices suddenly waking up too), but windows update often requires intense CPU usage as defender does its dirty things, .net re-JITs, etc.

This is a life-threating design. A high-end "gamer" laptop in a bag powering up unexpectedly could easily catch fire and kill someone. These shenanigans will keep going on until someone dies and a manager or two at Microsoft is sent to jail for criminal negligence.

> These shenanigans will keep going on until someone dies

This will happen.

> and a manager or two at Microsoft is sent to jail for criminal negligence.

This will never happen.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#260

Post by Hamuko »

joeberon wrote: post #72
toxik wrote: post #53

The entire fucking point in a laptop is to be portable. If you _have_ to shut it down completely before putting it in a bag, it’s not a laptop as any sane person expects it to have that ability. It’s absolutely astonishing that Dell, Microsoft and friends leave walk over in the laptop industry like this. “Oh we decided users don’t really want to be able to close the lid and go home.” ??????

Not going to lie but Apple have put pretty high standards on what people expect to work with all laptops nowadays, and many OEMs seem unable or unwilling to try to catch up.

It's not really Apple alone. Everyone has a smartphone and everyone expects it to just work when they put their smartphone display to sleep and then stuff the phone in their jeans pocket.
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