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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#191

Post by jraph »

tomp wrote: post #131
sokoloff wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tomp was likely talking about the Mac “reopen running apps after reboot” which works very well in terms of putting your state back the way it was. Terminals aren’t fully restored (what would it mean to/how could you restore an ssh connection anyway?), but most apps for most people are.

No, I never reboot my Mac. (For reasonable values of "never", e.g. "once every 3 months".) ssh connections fail even with just sleep though, obviously.

I don't rely on it, but I often notice a ssh connection still working after a night with the computer being suspended.

It requires two things:

- the network does not have a short timeout after which it closes the connection

- no side of the connection is trying to do I/O on this connection while one of the computers is sleeping.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#192

Post by cm2187 »

kblev wrote: post #188
zelphirkalt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to tur…

Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release and Microsoft keeps removing more and more controls. Just a few days ago I spent hours trying to fix the constant wake-ups. This time it was a waketimer set by the StartMenuExperienceHost.exe process! [1] Microsoft already removed the Power Management tabs in Device Manager for most devices (mouse, etc.). They also remo…

I noticed that it wakes from sleep for windows updates now, which not only is annoying (Bluetooth devices suddenly waking up too), but windows update often requires intense CPU usage as defender does its dirty things, .net re-JITs, etc.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#193

Post by d110af5ccf »

kawsper wrote: post #167
zokier wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hibernation in Windows hasn't gone anywhere. I have a Dell laptop in front of me and it has hibernate in the start menu as normal. Problem is that hibernation is slooow so people don't like to use it

Fedora doesn't even create swap partitions anymore, so you have to enable that first to enable hibernation, enabling it requires you to create a swap-partition, change things in systemd and meddle with the grub-configuration: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/fedora-hibernate.html

TBF hibernation has never been entirely reliable under Linux due to hardware vendors being difficult (IIUC). Getting it working for me has typically involved trying to make sense of arcane kernel log messages. I never managed to on my current laptop.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#194

Post by hef19898 »

cies wrote: post #170
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ I wanted to support "big brand w/ Linux preinstalled"” Look at Lenovo maybe :)

Got one from them now. But not a Linux pre-installed model, sadly.

Even a total Linux noob like myself (never touched it in my life) that installed his last OS like over a decade ago got Ubuntu on a X1E Gen 2 in around 30 minutes. No issues, Windows stays for the odd things that don't work under Linux (some Steam games, mostly...).

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#195

Post by einnhverr »

sprayk wrote: post #186
kawsper wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fedora doesn't even create swap partitions anymore, so you have to enable that first to enable hibernation, enabling it requires you to create a swap-partition, change things in systemd and meddle with the grub-configuration: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/fedora-hibernate.html

if you use secure boot, you cannot use hibernation under fedora (or any Linux, afaik) since there is no way to "seal" the hibernation image from modification by an attacker who could mount the swap on another OS where they have root. this is regardless of disk encryption.

I don't know precisely how secure boot works under fedora, but you can have FDE with swap just fine in Linux. A swap partition can live inside a LVM logical volume.

For secure boot I would guess you could have the EFI partition signed/validated with the TPM.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#196

Post by undecisive »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #106
undecisive wrote: post #36

Reminds me of the push a while back to rebrand laptops as "notebooks" - because many laptops (esp Dell XPS) are not built with a strong enough backbone to keep their own weight from sagging in the middle, and because they get hot enough to cause damage to legs. I have had an XPS since 2017, it had everything I wanted (I thought) - but I seriously regretted the decision almost immediately. High-intensity tasks (gaming…

> Nowadays, the base of the laptop has bowed, causing the trackpad to unglue and jut out at an angle. I don't think that's coming from the laptop sagging. They're pretty rigid. I think your battery has swollen. But fret not, it's "factory-replaceable". There's another modern trend with what appears to be no justification.

I suspect you are absolutely right!

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#197

Post by bluedino »

neuromancer2600 wrote: post #133

I had a Dell XPS 9310 until about 3 months ago when suddenly one of the fans died on me for no obvious reasons while I was in quarantine. Given that the fans are now soldered onto the mainboard, Dell was offering me to repair this for almost the same amount I paid for the whole laptop 2 years earlier. Needless to say that this was the last time I will buy a Dell. Since I am located in Asia, I also went to one of the…

I'm trying to think back to when Dell made a 'good' laptop. Maybe the D630? Lenovo was still better, but what Dell sells now is just terrible.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#198

Post by vesinisa »

slezyr wrote: post #190
vesinisa wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 64 GB Mac with SSD and managed to trick it to use true hibernation (Apple does not want you to know it but you can still achieve true hibernation by enabling disk encryption (FileVault™) and forcing key material erasure from MEM on standby with `sudo pmset -a DestroyFVKeyOnStandBy 1`). I just timed it and bootup from hibernation to UI took 25 seconds, out of which maybe 5 seconds were taken by inputtting the…

Yes, but this is an issue with Apple products. My old PC with not-so-fast SSD can boot (Linux and Windows) much faster than 16" MacBook Pro.

Sorry.. I meant exactly that 25 seconds to boot up from hibernation is definitely not an issue. Why would it be? I store the laptop hibernated. I need to dehibernate exactly once a day. I work 8 hours a day, meaning less then a promille of my working day is spent waiting for my laptop to dehibernate. It's a non-issue.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#199

Post by blablabla123 »

joeberon wrote: post #72
toxik wrote: post #53

The entire fucking point in a laptop is to be portable. If you _have_ to shut it down completely before putting it in a bag, it’s not a laptop as any sane person expects it to have that ability. It’s absolutely astonishing that Dell, Microsoft and friends leave walk over in the laptop industry like this. “Oh we decided users don’t really want to be able to close the lid and go home.” ??????

Not going to lie but Apple have put pretty high standards on what people expect to work with all laptops nowadays, and many OEMs seem unable or unwilling to try to catch up.

Yes and no. Speaking of hibernation/standby/wakeup, that just works (TM). Also the chassis is more robust than classical PC laptops - although many manufacturers have catched up. On the other hand the keyboards have mixed quality, CPU/GPU model and choice has been questionable (below average performance). Also other manufacturers don't seem to have problems building "always-on" systems when it comes to tablets or smartphones. Because this is essentially what modern Macbooks are, some weird fusion of a laptop and a standard consumer appliance. (It works like a stereo) So I'd argue Apple has been focussing on the latter and ignored performance/storage requirements which is actually more practical if you really carry the laptop around a lot.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#200

Post by npteljes »

Windows wakes up the computer all the fucking time, and this is the reason why they don't take responsibility. Frankly it's not just dangerous, as noted in the faq, but very creepy as well: it feels like someone tampered with it, because it's not in the state you left it in. I wish they weren't so successful with all their bullshit.
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