The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used • Hacker News Board

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#601

Post by magicalhippo » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

olah_1 wrote: post #454

etbusch wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: They are replaceable when the external ports (USB-C or otherwise) wear out without the need for soldering or internal board replacement. The design of the modules is open source, meaning that anyone can design a module that fits their needs.

how does a port “wear out”? i’ve never heard of that

Connectors are rated for a given number of connect/disconnect cycles. For USB-A it's a minimum of 1500[1].

If your laptop has a cheap connector which isn't rated for more, and you do two cycles a day (start/end of day, start/end lunch), then you'll go through the rated number of cycles in less than two years.

Doesn't mean the connector will fail right away but it might start to act up. Connectors are not forever.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#602

Post by 300bps » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

amiantos wrote: post #536

This is kind of a weird piece that really doesn't mean anything at all. I understand being in the "honeymoon phase" with a new piece of technology, but I don't feel like Cory is aware that he's doing that here. But there's some signs: He loved Thinkpads originally, but over the course of several years the company and the quality of the product went down the tubes. Now he's got a brand new laptop that he's only had fo…

I have a Lenovo Carbon X1. Can’t get more than 16 GB of RAM. Can’t get larger than 1 TB hard drive. Really crappy wifi chipset that blows up when I use a VPN.

I kinda feel like he explained what happened to ThinkPad. They went from IBM which for $150 per year would send out a tech anywhere in the world to fix your problem to Lenovo who… let’s just say isn’t as good.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#603

Post by kzrdude » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

teawrecks wrote: post #508

kzrdude wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their modular ports use a lot of space, they could have much more ports built in, unfortunately.

No one wants all the different ports though, they usually just want the correct ports. If you're plugging more than 4 things into your laptop at once you should be using a dock.

Maybe a great laptop would have 4 usb-c, hdmi and sd card reader? We can be ambitious :)

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#604

Post by abdullahkhalids » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

jbellis wrote: post #401

mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

How is the state of linux power saving (i.e., mobile battery life) in 2021? Last time I checked you could expect to get almost 2x the battery life on equivalent hardware with Windows or Mac OS.

When I bought my T440s in 2013 (8 years ago now), I could push it to 18 hours with wifi off. And could get 10 hours plus with wifi. I seriously doubt Windows or Mac OS would have gotten much more juice out of it.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#605

Post by TA-blahhh » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #69

topspin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus (the "tech tips" one) said something that sticks in my mind: "The only reason other companies can't do this - and Framework proved it - is because they don't care."

Linus has now invested in Framework, which constrains how he is allowed to review laptops on his channel because of the possibility of a conflict of interest. He says it's worth it to support what he believes is a great company with an awesome product vision.

"invested" is a bit of a misnomer here. He bought several of them for his employees. He was courted by Framework to buy into the company, but as far as I know, he noped out of that deal.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#606

Post by Swenrekcah » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

m1117 wrote: post #593

From the mission: "products that give you back the power to customize" and shipped w/Windows pre-installed.

You can choose no Windows, or pay a bunch of extra money and get Windows.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#607

Post by azinman2 » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #175

azinman2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MacOS is nice, probably my favorite consumer operating system currently available, but Apple's walled garden approach is beyond annoying What’s the walled garden on macOS? You can run anything you want on the Mac.

M1 macs no longer run unsigned code. Apps now check stapled OCSP. There's now a permissions dance to do much of anything.

You can turn off both gatekeeper and SIP.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#608

Post by DiabloD3 » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #513

NotPractical wrote: post #492

The baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7" x 9" x 0.6"). Compare that to your other thin and light options at this pricepoint. XPS 13, $1020 * i5 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 1920 x 1200 display * 1.2 kg, 11.6" x 7.8" x 0.6" MacBook Pro: $1300 * M1 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 2560 x 1600 display *…

It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.

Actually, that's the issue with my MBPR from 2012: it has a 2560x1600 screen, as in, highly non-standard. It is neither 1920 wide, nor is it 16:9.

If I had the option to have purchased it with 1920x1080, I would have.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#609

Post by ashtonkem » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

rcthompson wrote: post #91

ashtonkem wrote: post #50

I still remained baffled by the popularity of the laptop. Literally everyone I know works with them fixed in one location; their desk. Yes, some people do need mobility, but this appears to be a minority of consumers. We could’ve had all this repairability and modularity years ago if most consumers just admitted that really they wanted a desktop all along. It also fixed complaints about keyboards.

Even when I'm home 90% of the time during COVID, I use my laptop in lots of places: my desk, my bed, my dining table, my kitchen counter, my couch. I can't drag my desktop setup all around my apartment like that.

I don’t use my laptop in any of those places because my desktop setup isn’t there. Laptop keyboards are awful to type on, why put yourself through that?

I’d rather get my work done at the desk and then enjoy my hammock or couch without the computer, preferably with a good book.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#610

Post by pvarangot » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

NotPractical wrote: post #527

ricardobeat wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.

For the record, I also own a Mac: the MacBook Pro, 2019 baseline model. I used to enjoy the battery life (though it has been slowly getting worse to the point where I have considered reaching out to Apple about it since the battery is glued in and I can't replace it myself). I like the metal body. I also like macOS. My MacBook is not completely silent because it's an Intel mac, but the M1 would be, that's true. As fa…

> I'm seriously considering selling my MBP and buying this instead

Apple's trade-in program is pretty good. My 2012 MacBook Pro was still tradeable in 2019 for something like 400 bucks. I would consider that also if you don't want to abandon the Apple ecosystem.

Before having to use a Mac for work I preferred a P53 and an X1 as work laptops, but honestly now that I'm forced to use macOS again I don't miss Linux at all. Would be great to be able to choose though, but I'm kinda locked on Xcode because it's our build system.