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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#421

Post by davidy123 »

I think Framework is great, I'll consider one when they offer a good trackpoint, but Doctorow's description of Thinkpads is…. weird. Like, a heavy X1 Carbon? Replaceable drives that don't go to 2TB? Other generalizations that just don't make sense.

I've been using Thinkpads for a couple decades now, in some ways the quality has wavered (partially due to contemporary concessions like compromises to be thinner) but they are still in general the best mainstream systems to run Linux with end user and field support. I've installed Ubuntu on every system, especially in the last years it has "just worked," and Lenovo even increasing offers Ubuntu pre-installed on some models.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#422

Post by sequoia »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #354
strix_varius wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / d…

I don't understand how this meme about "dongles" still exists. You know how I avoided using dongles? I just used USB-C cables. And for the very few things that don't have a detachable cable, I use a micro USB-C adapter. It's been several years since the release of the USB-C only MacBook Pros, this shouldn't be an issue if you put in a minimal amount of effort.

In 2019 my new employer sent me a new MacBook pro. I couldn’t connect it to my home office monitors which had vga and dvi ports, so I asked for dongles.

Rather than try to sort out the cable confusion, they simply shipped me brand new monitors (which I wasn’t asking for). I also needed dongles to attach my keyboard and mouse, dongles for same were provided by IT.

My point: Dongles are still an issue, not everyone throws out their displays/keyboard/mouse every time apple comes out with some new version. My 2010 dell displays still work just fine, and it would be great if I could plug them straight into my laptop.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#423

Post by nomel »

paxys wrote: post #407
ericpauley wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

The modular port is a universal port with dongles. Except that (1) it doesn't take extra space outside of your computer, (2) it is cheaper than mainstream dongles (Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 while the Framework HDMI expansion is $20), and (3) it is fully open source and you can actually print/sell your own.

> Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70

Luckily, USB-C means you don't have to buy any accessory from Apple, and have the world of low cost peripherals at your disposal, like the $13 version on Amazon [1].

1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/re...

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#425

Post by smoldesu »

fouc wrote: post #399
smoldesu wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's any consolation, I've bought a used Thinkpad every year since 2015.

how do you get rid of the doubly used Thinkpads?

Only one of them has broken so far, and it was only an issue with the display. I repurposed it into a homelab/Podman host and it's been able to work just fine!

As a quick aside, if you're ever one of the 15 people who will likely do this, buy a Thinkpad dock. They're cheap, and it basically triples your I/O!

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#426

Post by clepto »

I just got one of these last weekend(I ordered it in early August) and so far it’s really great. The modular I/O and general mission of the company was what initially sold me on it, but now actually being hands on with it, I definitely feel secure in my decision to get one. I can’t overstate how good these modular ports are.

I also really like that you can bring your own hardware in a lot of cases. For example I had an extra M.2 SSD laying around, so I ordered mine without one and installed it. You can also do this with the RAM, and even the wifi card.

The only thing I’ve disliked about it so far is the arrow keys on the keyboard. Having full size keys for left and right but split keys for up and down feels weird, I would have preferred all full size arrow keys and a small right shift(because let’s be honest, when was the last time you used the right shift key?).

For anyone curious about Linux on it, I’m running Arch and had basically 0 problems specific to the device. It’s my understanding there were some incompatibilities with certain kernel versions before so maybe some of these problems exist in distros like Debian with an older kernel, but I have had no issues.

All in all, it’s just an exciting project and nice to see innovation in the space that isn’t just rounded corners or a sleeker edge or something where they take modularity or performance away for the sake of aesthetics.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#427

Post by vagrantJin »

ArgyleSound wrote: post #397
slabity wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another quote from Linus that's relevant: "Imagine being an engineer at a company at Apple, and it being your job to design the mechanism that makes it so that machine cannot start up unless the chassis is fully sealed. Apple spent actual fucking money making sure that product would not work unless it is in the exact chassis they shipped it in." That goes beyond not caring.

For what it's worth I don't think Apple has actually ever done this, and whatever made him believe they do was probably some other oversight during their disassembly/reassembly of the laptop

> For what it's worth I don't think Apple has actually ever done this

I'm willing to bet real money that they did.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#428

Post by charwalker »

ericpauley wrote: post #253
mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

The modularity means you can change your workflow or peripherals without needing to find a dock or dongles long term. You can travel with the HDMI dongle in for putting a movie on a hotel TV or use with an external monitor somewhere. Maybe you need that SD card reader for most of your photo work but only on weekends or trips when you go process images immediately or need to offload them from the SD card.

Regardless, the port can be what you need it to be or just a useful USB-C, you aren't tied to whatever ports the OEM thinks you'll need forever even though it may only be valued by a small number of consumers.

That small number is still enough to drive sales for FrameWork. I'm interested if I need a better laptop and I sit at a desk with desktop in use almost all the time. This appeals to those that interested in more control over their device in configuration, expansion or modifications, and the various ports and IO options. I can't say I'd buy many of the USB modules (rarely would use most anyway) but the mentality is there and I so far have trust in the product. It's not meant to appeal to GAMERS or Enterprise execs, just those that want more control over their devices.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#429

Post by adolph »

rozap wrote: post #326
xvector wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Framework has half the battery life of similarly sized alternatives. No one was lying to you.

As battery tech gets better, you can replace it. And the glued-in battery in the macbook pro won't be 100% capacity after a bunch of charge/discharges. It's a compromise in the short term maybe, but long term it's so much nicer.

I've replaced a glued in MacBook Pro battery. It isn't a big deal and very similar to the Framework, except the Framework has mechanical connections (screws and tabs). The battery replacement kit came with everything needed. It didn't come with newly additional capacity because the underlying changes in battery chemistry aren't there. The improvements in battery life mostly come from CPUs with lower TDP.

https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85...

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Disp...

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