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Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

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Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#441

Post by Cycl0ps »

kryogen1c wrote: post #355
_moof wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, aerospace software engineer and flight instructor here. I think you get shot down because the problems just aren't comparable. While I agree that there may be some philosophical transfer from aircraft automation, the environments are so radically different that it's difficult to imagine any substantial technological transfer. Aircraft operate in an extremely controlled environment that is almost embarrassingly si…

> We aren't going to live in a world where every street has to be (the equivalent of) an FAA certified airport with controls to remove any uncertainty actually ive been thinking this is exactly the win self driving vehicles have been looking for. upgrade, certify, and maintain cross country interstates like I-70 for fully autonomous, no driver vehicles like freight, mail, hell even passengers. maybe that means one la…

>fully autonomous, no driver vehicles like freight, mail, hell even passengers. maybe that means one lane ... and predefined gas station stops and/or some other requirements. I bet the government could even subsidize with an infrastructure spending bill, politics notwithstanding.

Yup, that's a train. I really do wish US rail hadn't been turned into what amounts to private property. I live along the Amtrak Cardinal line and would love to use it to travel. But the low speed and frequent stops for higher-priority freight mean a trip takes longer than driving and usually costs more than I would pay in gas.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#442

Post by logifail »

quantified wrote: post #423
yunohn wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we still run it with an incredible robust infrastructure to have a human oversee the tech Airplanes are responsible for 200-300+ lives at a time, so it’s quite incomparable to road vehicles. Of course it makes sense to have human oversight in case something goes wrong. On the flip side, the average car driver is not very skilled nor equipped to deal with most surprises - hence the ever present danger of road traffi…

I’m reminded of GWB’s “soft bigotry of low expectations”. (Even if you didn’t like him, it remains apt.) Sorry, most drivers I’ve seen avoid the kid that follows the bouncing ball into the street and all the other random events. A few drivers are crap. But justifying automation based on that few is lazy and incorrect. Elon is just full of his own crap on Tesla’s autopilot.

> most drivers I’ve seen avoid the kid that follows the bouncing ball into the street and all the other random events

I've seen many poor drivers over the decades, but can't think of any human drivers who would reliably and repeatably crash into a stationary fire truck in their lane. "Full Self Driving" vehicles, on the other hand...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-06/spotting-...

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

https://slate.com/technology/2021/08/teslas-allegedly-hittin...

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#443

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

_moof wrote: post #297
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

Hi, aerospace software engineer and flight instructor here. I think you get shot down because the problems just aren't comparable. While I agree that there may be some philosophical transfer from aircraft automation, the environments are so radically different that it's difficult to imagine any substantial technological transfer. Aircraft operate in an extremely controlled environment that is almost embarrassingly si…

> We aren't going to live in a world where every street has to be (the equivalent of) an FAA certified airport with controls to remove any uncertainty about what the vehicle will encounter when it gets there.

I do sometimes wish we'd just devote one lane of our larger freeways to self-driving cars exclusively. You could let the cars drive as fast as they want, and charge per-mile tolls for any car that uses it when the road is congested. Ideally, you'd charge based on occupancy as well: an empty car should have to pay more than a car with a human in it, and a car with 2+ people might be allowed to use the lane for free.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#444

Post by rootusrootus »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #367
rootusrootus wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part that always bothered me most about AP on the highway was how willing it is to drive full speed into an obvious problem. Obvious for me, that is. Dense merging traffic, for example -- I can see the conflict coming, I can read the way people are driving on that on-ramp, and I take defensive action. My Tesla would just drive right into the center of that mess than then panic when things got crazy. I no longer h…

well, you don't just "trust" it, if you are smart enough you quickly learn the good and bad sides of it. When I use it (95% of time) I know what to expect and I have a habit of putting my foot on the accelerator pedal instead of break pedal for "phantom" braking which has gotten a lot better than let say in 2018. You also know the limits - if the lines look strange - no lines at all or if they are not perfect or if t…

If I have to pay more attention to the car while I'm attempting to trust it to adequately respond to a situation it put itself into, then why would I be using AP in the first place? It's not relaxing, it's making the trip more stressful.

Sometimes I wonder about the folks who think AP makes for a more relaxing drive. I think that's only true if the level of defensive driving it does matches well with the driver's innate driving style. I'm not prone to having close calls on the road because I avoid them well before they get exciting. I've ridden with people who just don't drive that way, though. They'd probably be okay with AP.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#445

Post by 93po »

WA wrote: post #340

Reminder that Tesla will kill critical videos of FSD, but still to this day has not taken down the fabricated "full self driving demo" from their own website since 2016: https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware... Tesla (and fanboys) say that they are clear about the limited capabilities of Autopilot and FSD when in reality, they indirectly support all fan-videos by letting them live on YouTube wh…

How was it fabricated?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#446

Post by chrismcb »

ghaff wrote: post #282
ra7 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is one reason I come back to thinking that you may see full automation in environments such as limited access highways in good weather but likely not in, say, Manhattan into the indefinite future. This is why there are SAE levels of automation and specifically Level 4 is what you're describing. Anyone claiming their system will be Level 5 is flat out lying.

Even just in the US, there are some cities that can be fairly challenging for an experienced human driver, especially one unfamiliar with them. And there are plenty of even paved mountain roads in the West which can be a bit stressful as well. And that's in good weather.

Which paved mountain roads in the west are stressful?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#447

Post by sleepybrett »

frumper wrote: post #372
sleepybrett wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem, as I see it, is that the longer driver uses the autopilot feature the less attention they will pay to it as long as it doesn't do something nuts like this. My understanding is that this occurred soon after a new 'beta' update to the autopilot system. I'm not sure how this is surfaced to the user, if you need to opt into this new version etc. My fear is that a new version of the autopilot system could hav…

Just curious, how does one prove 100% safe? Even if Tesla's were show to be safe on every road in existence there are always too many variables. Weather, construction, road condition, other drivers, objects falling into the roadway, on and on. There is some level of reasonable safety that should be expected, but proving 100% safe isn't a realistic goal, nor is it even a standard for existing automobiles.

I'm not sure you could get to 100% safety. See any rail system in the world, however I'm more comfortable with our general rate of derailments I think (I haven't looked into the statistics). So I think we could get to a 'safe' system that looks like 'automated freight carrying in a special lane that is restricted, has built in 'hinting' and only if all the freight carrying vehicles are networked' Let the truck drivers get in that lane, fully engage automatic pilot and hopefully one day take a nap, to be awoken upon approach to their destination where they will take over, move out of the special lane, exit the freeway and proceed to their dropoff/pickup.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#448

Post by sleepybrett »

antattack wrote: post #248
sleepybrett wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's sold as an 'autopilot' that means 'automatic pilot' that does not imply hybridization, that implies full automation.

I don't know where you get the idea. Even plane autopilot will not land the plane w/o Pilot's supervision. People who don't read manuals put themselves at risk. Even simple systems like Cruise Control carry plenty of warnings that one should be familiar with when operating (from Ford's manual): WARNING: Always pay close attention to changing road conditions when using adaptive cruise control. The system does not repl…

People always read the warning labels.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#449

Post by lanstin »

antattack wrote: post #414
lanstin wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an intersection near where I live where the Tesla cannot go thru in the right lane without wanting to end up in the left lane past the intersection (I guess it's a bit of a twisty local road). At first, it would be going in a straight line, then when it hit the moment of confusion would snap into the left lane so quickly, some 200 ms or something. Never tried it with a car in that spot fortunately. After a nav…

FSD beta does have mechanism for object permanence, as explained on Tesla AI Day.

Is that the same as a model for what it doesn't understand, so it can reason about the limits of its data?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#450

Post by maybeOneDay »

soheil wrote: post #334
maybeOneDay wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Entered the crosswalk section" is a rather euphemistic way of describing "drove directly through where the people were going to be"

Was going to drive != drove

Read the comment and substitute in my words. I didn't imply what you're saying I implied
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