Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown • Hacker News Board

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#261

Post by null_shift » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #220

aaroninsf wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I do not understand: there are keys difference between automation in e.g. aircraft, and what Tesla at al are failing at, e.g., how constrained the environment is; and what the exposure is to anomalous conditions is; and what the opportunity window usually is to turn control back over to a human. The thing I don't understand is, we have a much more comparable environment in ground travel: federal highways. I…

Highway self driving has been around for decades[1] - and Tesla's general release autopilot can already do all that. As I understand it from ramp on to ramp off, in production vehicles, Tesla can provide an automated experience. I'm not sure how much "better" it can get. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMl97OsH1FQ

better would be that i can legally go to sleep and let the car drive the highway portion of my trip. then i wake up and complete the final leg of the trip.

as you say, i don’t think this is entirely out of reach (even if it required specialized highway infrastructure or car to car communication). seems like lower hanging fruit than trying to get full self driving working on local/city roads.

i would pay a ton for the highway only capability…

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#262

Post by sh1mmer » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

My Audi e-tron has this habit of switching the adaptive cruise control to the on-ramp speed limit even when I’m in the middle of the freeway.

It’s something I’ve learned to deal with but the sudden attempt to break from 70 to 55 is pretty bad especially as it’s unexpected for other drivers around you.

While I’m sure Audi are much worse at updating their software to fix known issues than Tesla I find myself skeptical that the mix of hacks cars use to implement these features scale well, especially in construction zones. Hence I’m pretty content with radar based cruise control and some basic lane maintenance and then doing the rest of the driving myself.

I can imagine if my car were slightly better at some of these things I’d be a significantly worse safety driver as I’d start to be lulled into a false sense of security.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#263

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #136

aidenn0 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going behind pedestrians in a crosswalk is legal in many states. It's universal that you must yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk, but not universal that you must wait for them to clear the crosswalk.

Going behind pedestrians in a crosswalk is legal in many states. Not in the state in which this particular Tesla was being driven: "The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian, bicycle, or personal delivery device to cross the roadway..." https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235

You left out the rest.

"when the pedestrian, bicycle, or personal delivery device is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning"

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#264

Post by ra7 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #198

rtkwe wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are vastly more complex to do navigation for than planes too so we need to be even more careful when making auto autos. Plane autopilots are basically dealing with just the physical mechanics of flying the plane which while complex are quite predictable and modellable. All of the obstacle avoidance and collision avoidance takes place outside of autopilots through ATC and the routes are known and for most purpose…

Which is one reason I come back to thinking that you may see full automation in environments such as limited access highways in good weather but likely not in, say, Manhattan into the indefinite future. Unexpected things can happen on highways but a lot fewer of them and it's not like humans driving 70 mph are great at avoiding that unexpected deer or erratic driver either. ADDED: You'd actually think the manufacture…

> Which is one reason I come back to thinking that you may see full automation in environments such as limited access highways in good weather but likely not in, say, Manhattan into the indefinite future.

This is why there are SAE levels of automation and specifically Level 4 is what you're describing. Anyone claiming their system will be Level 5 is flat out lying.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#265

Post by CyanBird » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

Imnimo wrote: post #125

ggrrhh_ta wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a "no right turn" sign just before it decides to turn right. Could that have anything to do with it?

There's also a "One way ->" sign pointing to the right, maybe it thinks it's only allowed to go that way?

There are actually two of these, one besides the traffic lights and other one on the traffic lights post where the people where crossing the street

Id say that yeah, it seems that the car detected these signs and read them as "you can only go that way" even when the street was open

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#266

Post by mcdoogal » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

crote wrote: post #156

koonsolo wrote: post #131

Maybe it's just me, but it seems the car wanted to make a right turn on the right part of that side street. There are no pedestrians there. It's actually the interference of the driver that stops the turn halfway, and steers towards the people at the left starting to cross that street. I wonder what would have happened when the driver didn't interfere. I guess that the right turn would have been completed without any…

I neither see nor hear any indication of a turn signal, so I do not think it is actually trying to make a right turn. Besides, the pedestrians were already on the road when the car initiated the turn. Note the "one way" sign: that street only has a single lane, and that lane was already occupied. It should definitely have yielded.

Agreed that I don’t think it was trying to turn. Crazy how the system just went for it even with pedestrians. However, I know this area well; that street it’s turning on to is actually 3 lanes with no parking on the right except for buses.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#267

Post by mwint » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

mwint wrote: post #192

freeone3000 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were several high publicity collisions with a Tesla colliding into stationary objects -- a highway barricade [1], a blue truck [2], a parked police car[3], two instances of a parked ambulance[4]... Teslas driving themselves hit objects all the time. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/tes... 2. Ibid 3. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/14/... 4. https://www.google.…

This was all not FSD beta; those were all on the completely separate public stack.

This is kinda fascinating - factually true statements about FSD are blanket downvoted. Why is that?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#268

Post by dev_tty01 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #220

aaroninsf wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I do not understand: there are keys difference between automation in e.g. aircraft, and what Tesla at al are failing at, e.g., how constrained the environment is; and what the exposure is to anomalous conditions is; and what the opportunity window usually is to turn control back over to a human. The thing I don't understand is, we have a much more comparable environment in ground travel: federal highways. I…

Highway self driving has been around for decades[1] - and Tesla's general release autopilot can already do all that. As I understand it from ramp on to ramp off, in production vehicles, Tesla can provide an automated experience. I'm not sure how much "better" it can get. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMl97OsH1FQ

>Highway self driving has been around for decades[1]

Driver assisted highway has been around for years... Level 5 driving requires no human attention. Huge difference.

I think what is wanted by many is level 5 on the highways. I want to sleep, watch a movie, whatever. That is much, much "better" than what we have now. Like many others, I would be most interested in full level 5 on highways and me driving in the city. That is also much easier to implement and test. The scope of the problem is greatly reduced. I think Tesla and others are wasting tremendous resources trying to get the in-city stuff working. It makes cool videos, but being able to do other activities during a 5 hour highway drive has much more value (to me at least) than riding inside a high risk video game on the way to work.

(edit) I get that I am misusing the definition of "level 5" a bit, but I think my meaning is clear. Rated for no human attention for the long highway portion of a trip.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#269

Post by antattack » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

zaptrem wrote: post #247

antattack wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the video Tesla was probably not closer than 25 feet from any pedestrians. If pedestrians were closer I think their proximity would make the car stop as in other videos. As to abrupt maneuver, EU limits rate of change for steering control and I think it would be wise for US to adopt something similar for driver assist systems.

This makes evasive maneuvers impossible. EU regulations make it impossible for ADAS to even change lanes half the time. Let’s not go down the rabbit hole of government specifying how machines we haven’t even built yet should work.

Because they are sudden and unpredictable, evasive maneuvers cannot be supervised. It would be unfair to rely on driver to supervise such scenarios.

If evasive maneuver is required it would have to be done in fully autonomous way. For the time of the maneuver system would have to be responsible for driving.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#270

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #199

CameronNemo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Petition to label all Teslas with FSD as student drivers. They need a little LED panel that tells you when the driver is using the AI.

While most people see the student vehicle and give it a wide berth, there are those that see it as a "teachable" moment. We've already seen that asshats that screw with cars labeled with Student Driver just to "give 'em a lesson" are already screwing with self driving cars for the same reason: They're assholes.

[deleted]