Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown • Hacker News Board

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#351

Post by arcticbull » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #181

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

Cars are vastly more complex to do navigation for than planes too so we need to be even more careful when making auto autos. Plane autopilots are basically dealing with just the physical mechanics of flying the plane which while complex are quite predictable and modellable. All of the obstacle avoidance and collision avoidance takes place outside of autopilots through ATC and the routes are known and for most purpose…

Sounds more comparable to ATTOL does it not? Planes in development now are capable of automatic taxi, take-off and landing.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#352

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

Is there any evidence for the video being DMCA'd (and if so, who sent the takedown - IIRC youtube shows that), instead of being taken private by the uploader as the link in the tweet indicates?

Edit: It's about the copy on Twitter, https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1438141148816609285

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#353

Post by kaba0 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #187

oefrha wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the admittedly not much footage of Tesla FSD (1-2 hours total maybe) I’ve watched, it seems to be roughly on par with a student driver who occasionally panics for no apparent reason.

The difference is the student driver will learn within a few more dozen hours and be fit for the road, Tesla no silver lining on the horizon.

As well as he/she has a professional driver paying close attention to whatever he does. Overseeing something is a really mentally trying thing and “fsd” car drivers will not be able to do that for long times.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#354

Post by mcguire » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

emn13 wrote: post #295

mrguyorama wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can log and debug the inputs going into the black box, and the outputs, but how do you debug inside the black box?

The box isn't as black as you might think; they're not training some monolithic AI model, there are separated systems involved. Also, the models aren't entirely freeform; i.e. engineers embed knowledge of how the world is structured into those networks. They can use those intermediates to project a kind of thought process others can look at - and you've probably seen videos and images of that kind of thing too; i.e.…

"Also, the models aren't entirely freeform; i.e. engineers embed knowledge of how the world is structured into those networks."

In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.

"What are you doing?", asked Minsky.

"I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied.

"Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky.

"I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play", Sussman said.

Minsky then shut his eyes.

"Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked his teacher.

"So that the room will be empty."

At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10970937)

IIRC, in the incident where the Tesla [Edit: Uber self driving car] collided with a pedestrian pushing a bicycle in Arizona, the Tesla repeatedly switched between calling the input a pedestrian and a bicycle. And took no evasive actions while it was trying to decide.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#355

Post by kryogen1c » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

_moof wrote: post #297

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

Hi, aerospace software engineer and flight instructor here. I think you get shot down because the problems just aren't comparable. While I agree that there may be some philosophical transfer from aircraft automation, the environments are so radically different that it's difficult to imagine any substantial technological transfer. Aircraft operate in an extremely controlled environment that is almost embarrassingly si…

> We aren't going to live in a world where every street has to be (the equivalent of) an FAA certified airport with controls to remove any uncertainty

actually ive been thinking this is exactly the win self driving vehicles have been looking for. upgrade, certify, and maintain cross country interstates like I-70 for fully autonomous, no driver vehicles like freight, mail, hell even passengers. maybe that means one lane with high-vis paint and predefined gas station stops and/or some other requirements. i bet the government could even subsidize with an infrastructure spending bill, politics notwithstanding.

there cant possibly be a problem with _predefined_ highways that is harder to solve than neighborhood and city driving with unknown configurations and changing obstacles. i feel like everyones so rabid for fully autonomous Uber that the easier wins and use cases are being overlooked.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#356

Post by acd » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

Selfvdriving cars almost hitting a pedestrian is terrible. Socialmedia platforms is an attention economy, where the most spectacular posts get attention. I think its diverting attention to the wrong causes.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#357

Post by acd » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

A self driving car almost hitting a pedestrian is terrible. Socialmedia platforms is an attention economy, where the most spectacular unusual posts gets most attention! I think its diverting attention to the wrong causes.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#358

Post by itsoktocry » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #271

margalabargala wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% perfect is not good enough, it's horrifyingly bad for a car on public roads. When I drive, I don't spend 1 minute plowing into pedestrians for every 1 hour and 39 minutes I spend driving normally. If a FSD Tesla spends just 99% of its time doing boring, non-click-worthy things, that is itself interesting in how dangerous it is. To your point, I'm definitely interested in knowing how many minutes of boring driving…

99% is a an very rough colloquial estimate meaning 'the vast majority of the time' to drive the point. Could well be 99.999999%. What really matters is how it compares with human performance, I don't have data to do that comparison. The only ones that can make the comparison are Tesla, modulo believing data from a megacorp in the wake of the VW scandal.

>Could well be 99.999999%

That's up to you (or Tesla) to prove, isn't it? Taking your (or Tesla's) word that it's good most of the time is utterly meaningless.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#359

Post by itsoktocry » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #244

phkahler wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What if it's covered in mud, or snow? That's the entire problem. These systems don't understand anything about the world. If you see a sign covered in snow you're going to recognize it as such and make your best guess as to what it says and weather you care. You probably don't need that information to drive safely because you have a lot of knowledge to fall back on. These things dont, so some folks want to improve…

Right now, the TSLAs with FSD will disable it in snow+rain, so I assume that even if TSLA achieves L4, it will be only under ideal conditions until they have enough data to resolve these edge cases.

>Right now, the TSLAs with FSD will disable it in snow+rain

What about that instant before it figures out it's bad enough weather to shut itself off? What is the threshold?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#360

Post by TheJoeMan » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #193

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

The car almost certainly decided that the road ahead was blocked. For context, this release of FSD is the first to use a new obstacle detection technique, and as a result it is the first one that doesn't drive directly into the pillars on that street without perceiving them at all. So it's very likely that this new obstacle detection system glitched out here.

Yeah I’d have to say just stop using FSD underneath a monorail. I haven’t seen as much failures in suburbs