Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#481

Post by jrjarrett » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

In the mid 70s I contracted measles. I was only 9 or 10 but I think I remember it was because there was a batch of vaccines that didn’t work, or maybe it was doctors learned we actually needed two doses. Whatever; I’d had the vaccination prescribed at the time, it didn’t work, I got measles.

Fast forward 25 years to when I applied to grad school. There was a measles outbreak happening and in order to attend I either needed to have a recent vaccination or a blood test proving immunity.

Even though I had natural immunity I just went ahead and got the additional vaccination. It was faster, cheaper, and I didn’t care.

The point is, medical knowledge changed. No one made a big deal about needing an extra vaccination. No one made a big deal about even needing certain vaccinations to do things like go to school. Why now?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#482

Post by adamrezich » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:26 PM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #224

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others Was in Jackson Hole for Labor Day weekend. They border Idaho, whose voluntarily unvaccinated have filled its hospitals. In four days I met as many nurses and one doctor who quit out of frustration. They could no longer empathise with their patients, each describing a visceral anger at tending to ICUs of COVID patients, all unv…

I don't understand their frustration. There's not much they can do for a patient once that patient is admitted to the ICU. Hospitals should have been setting up Covid wards, or tents. The hospital had enough time. Other than intubation there's not much. I guess if you are important enough you get those coveted antibodies that were donated, or blood thinning drugs if you have blood clots in your lungs. I've never met…

> Hospitals should have been setting up Covid wards, or tents.

didn't this happen basically everywhere already, and most if not all of ended up being unneeded at the time? our local civic center converted into a temporary emergency covid care facility months ago and it was never used, so they shut it down. now the local healthcare corporation CEO is claiming the ICUs are full again. well if that's truly the case, we could easily set up the emergency care facility again, our mayor and governor have shown they're more than willing to help when the situation arises. so, at least here in my neck of the woods, something doesn't add up.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#483

Post by bwship » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:27 PM UTC

throwaway827171 wrote: post #473

bwship wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, my uncle who was otherwise healthy died months after getting the jab. And my sister's husband came down with some major fatigue/fever issues recently after the jab. So again, I took my chances based on the facts I had, yet I will get downvoted because they aren't in lock step with most of HN.

So, at first you claimed you didn't want to get the vaccine because a friend got it and still got sick. Now you claimed your uncle died from it and your sister's husband got serious sick from it. I wonder why you didn't mention that at first to make your point, instead of using the much less serious case about your friend. Make me skeptical about everything you said.

No, it wasn't that I didn't want to get the vaccine because my friend got sick. The fact was he had the vaccine, and got me sick and we both had as close to the exact same experience during the sickness. The second parts about my uncle and my sister's husband I can't really prove they are related to the vaccine, but were just in response to the previous commenters. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#484

Post by himinlomax » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #414

himinlomax wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that it doesn't prevent spread That's right, it doesn't prevent it, it reduces it. Just like wearing a seat belt does not prevent dying in a car accident but reduces the risk. You're just splitting hair.

I'm not saying it doesn't reduce individual risk for a period of time. It does. But vaccinating entire populations for a respiratory virus that mutates and stays infectious is a recipe for never ending boosters and has a strong possibility of creating more lethal variants because these will thrive in the vaccinated less severe masses when normally they'd be bed ridden, symptomatic and easily contained through contact…

This is completely at odds with what the experts say. They could be all wrong, or you could be. What are your credentials in virology/immunology?

And do you have examples of vaccinations favoring the apparition of variants for other diseases? As far as I know, that's never happened. On the contrary, I've seen researchers point to immunocompromised patients as possible sources for variants, as the infection lingers in them. On the other hand, vaccines, even when they don't work to prevent the infection do shorten it, so by that logic they should reduce the apparition of variants.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#485

Post by RHSeeger » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

justwanttolearn wrote: post #457

RHSeeger wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obese Requires lifestyle change > alcoholics Requires lifestyle change > people who don’t take their medication Requires lifestyle change > Vaccine Requires a choice and a half day off. There is a BIG difference there.

The lifestyle change is a choice that we make. For those people that HAVE made these choices, should also have a choice into taking a vaccine when they don't need it, just to satisfy those that have not taken the choice to do the same. Those who are obese, alcoholics or whatever can then take the choice to get vaccinated to better protect themselves

The problem is that, by not getting vaccinated, they're not _just_ impacting themselves. They're more likely to get, to pass it to others, to introduce a variant, etc. We're all much safer if everyone gets immunized. Or, at least, so the prevailing scientific theory and minds indicate... and you can either believe them or chose not to with no actual facts to back up your position... and be called an idiot ./shrug.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#486

Post by ufo » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:39 PM UTC

adolph wrote: post #479

ufo wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That distinction isn't as important for evaluating vaccine efficacy. It wants to measure if the person was infected, not if the person is infectious.

If a trial subject is exposed to virus and the vaccine works to trigger an effective immune response, how does PCR know the difference between virus molecules neutralized by vaccine response and those neutralized otherwise?

In those cases the virus particles don't replicate enough to be detected.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#487

Post by sand500 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:39 PM UTC

jrjarrett wrote: post #481

In the mid 70s I contracted measles. I was only 9 or 10 but I think I remember it was because there was a batch of vaccines that didn’t work, or maybe it was doctors learned we actually needed two doses. Whatever; I’d had the vaccination prescribed at the time, it didn’t work, I got measles. Fast forward 25 years to when I applied to grad school. There was a measles outbreak happening and in order to attend I either…

> No one made a big deal about needing an extra vaccination

This is fine when there are plenty of vaccines to go around. The point is we should use the vaccines globally on unvaccinated people rather than giving existing vaccinated populations a booster.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#488

Post by gunapologist99 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

merrywhether wrote: post #242

mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

There’s a serious disconnect between public health experts and the general public, and the experts have continued to not learn that lesson over the last year plus. It’s mind-boggling. Earlier in the summer, we lifted mask mandates “because the vaccines were preventing disease”, and regardless of the technical facts behind that decision, the perception was reality for the general public. Now they are trying to walk th…

> Public health officials need to understand that their primary job is managing public perception of a situation first and foremost.

Actually, public health officials need to maintain the trust of the public, or no one will listen.

And you won't be trusted if everything coming out of your mouth is a lie, no matter what your intentions.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#489

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

junon wrote: post #469

odessacubbage wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please give '''my''' shot to a high risk person in jamaica or iran or brazil. i don't need it, they do.

> i don't need it Yes. You do. Even if you're asymptomatic, the virus will still mutate with a small chance of becoming another variant, and if you're unvaccinated in such a case, that means you'll spread it to others. By not being vaccinated, you run the risk of spreading a variant around that is a "breakthrough variant" - a mutation of the disease that is hardened against a particular vaccine brand. Thus, you will…

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#490

Post by varelse » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

So one in 500 Americans have died of covid-19 at this point. If you get vaccinated, your chance of death from this stupid virus drops by a factor of 10. But apparently these are not good enough odds for those of us who consider ourselves armchair epidemiologists doing the research so to speak.

So let's rephrase this. I just gave you a free ticket to Disney world. But what will make this trip to Disney world unlike any other trip you will ever have to Disney world is that for every 60 visitors I'm going to give a sniper a bullet. And that sniper gets to shoot anyone the sniper wants to shoot. Are you going to accept my free visit to Disney World?

Because basically one in eight Americans have had covid-19 to the extent that their case was recorded. And 1:61 of those people then died of it.

And and before you think I'm some sort of weird tyrant enabler, I support your right not to get vaccinated if you support my right to require you to be tested whenever you want to mix among the vaccinated.

But what's funny is when anti-vaccine ideology was considered part of one political party that sort of viewpoint was just fine but now it's some sort of Nazi Germany outlook because reasons or something. What changed? For bonus points please explain how this is consistent with getting a cavity search every time you want to fly or you hate America.