Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#221

Post by bwship » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

Anecdotally, I decided not to get the vaccine. Three weeks ago, my friend who had gotten the vaccine got Covid, and then gave it to me. (He also beat me in golf that day which says a lot more about my golf than his ability to play while sick). But anyway, we both lost our sense of taste and smell, had fevers, were achy, him up until about a week ago, me up until a couple of days ago. So, perhaps he would have had an even tougher go at it had he not been vaccinated, but to me it seems we both suffered just about identical outcomes.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#222

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #177

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others Was in Jackson Hole for Labor Day weekend. They border Idaho, whose voluntarily unvaccinated have filled its hospitals. In four days I met as many nurses and one doctor who quit out of frustration. They could no longer empathise with their patients, each describing a visceral anger at tending to ICUs of COVID patients, all unv…

I was there too. I was also in Boise, and Twin Falls, ID. I went to no less than 20 doctors or nurses in the space of 2 weeks Not one doctor mentioned anything about quitting or being short-staffed.

> Not one doctor mentioned anything about quitting or being short-staffed

This likely comes down to self selection. You were in Idaho, I in Jackson. Also, relatively-rural Driggs versus denser Boise having different rates of spare hospital capacity as well as vaccination. (Or seeing a doctor at their office versus off duty.) Given Idaho was flirting with crisis standards of care, I think it’s objective to say they have a problem.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#223

Post by chitowneats » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #210

nafix wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's highly ignorant to call unvaccinated Americans idiots. Over 100 million Americans have already caught and recovered from Covid. I imagine many in that group don't see any value in getting the vaccine (rightfully so).

Most of those people don't actually know they had COVID. They make up stories that "they've already had it". Remember that vaccinated still get COVID, those numbers include them.

What evidence do you have for your claim? An anecdote or two from your own life? How is that any more scientific than what you claim to be decrying?

In the U.S. at least, there is a mass testing regime that many must submit to for work, school, etc. Are you suggesting those who have tested positive in these situations are "making up stories"?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#224

Post by hellbannedguy » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #156

MontagFTB wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe a serious issue with your “protect the unvaccinated” statement is it overlooks the amount of pressure they exert on our shared medical system. If your hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others.

> hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others Was in Jackson Hole for Labor Day weekend. They border Idaho, whose voluntarily unvaccinated have filled its hospitals. In four days I met as many nurses and one doctor who quit out of frustration. They could no longer empathise with their patients, each describing a visceral anger at tending to ICUs of COVID patients, all unv…

I don't understand their frustration.

There's not much they can do for a patient once that patient is admitted to the ICU.

Hospitals should have been setting up Covid wards, or tents. The hospital had enough time. Other than intubation there's not much. I guess if you are important enough you get those coveted antibodies that were donated, or blood thinning drugs if you have blood clots in your lungs.

I've never met a doctor who quit over ethics. I've seen many who quit over ego disutes, or pay.

In medicine there's something called Professional Deniability. American doctors gave it in spades.

I'm all for getting the idiots vaccinated, but don't buy the caring doctor quitting because he/she has a moral dilemma.

(I think American doctors are good, but caring no. Ethical just enough to keep them out of a Malpractise suit.)

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#225

Post by ds206 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #183

MontagFTB wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe a serious issue with your “protect the unvaccinated” statement is it overlooks the amount of pressure they exert on our shared medical system. If your hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others.

As I mentioned on another thread, I just spent a few days in the hospital with an appendicitis. The hospital was swamped with COVID patients. It took 16 hours for me to be admitted to the hospital, which I was told was quite long for this hospital. My hospital roommate waited nearly 30 hours. The non-covid floor that I was on was severely understaffed, with nurses caring for 2.5x as many patients as normal. The nursi…

So your assumption is that all the covid patients were unvaccinated?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#226

Post by mgamache » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

mattwad wrote: post #216

mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

The reason for masks always has been to flatten the curve. The hospitals are too full for everyone just to get it and get it over with, so people without COVID can't get medical help. Right now, the CDC recommends everyone older than 2 years old should wear a mask indoors. This is not just to protect kids but prevent them spreading it. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... .

Accept the CDCs own study of 169 K–5 schools failed to find that masks for children in schools prevent the spread. Adult masks and ventilation were supported.

"The 21% lower incidence in schools that required mask use among students was not statistically significant compared with schools where mask use was optional."

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e1.htm

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#227

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#228

Post by adevx » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #158

sradman wrote: post #77

There is not strong evidence supporting a 3rd booster dose in immunocompetent people. We have partly seen a misinterpretation of the Israeli data [1] and specifically the single low effectiveness value that appears to be the result of Simpson's Paradox [2]. Dr. Fauci reported this single value decline from the high nineties to the high seventies on Andy Slavitt's podcast [3]. Pfizer's CEO has promoted this same data,…

I don't know how the Israel data is being misinterpreted. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_F6vV0XoAMbaNO?format=jpg&name=... https://imgur.com/a/fzMdPFE I guess ignoring data to push an agenda can be defined as "misinterpretation", fair enough. Carry on.

It's telling that linking to factual hard data is being downvoted.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#229

Post by ghaff » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

sgc wrote: post #200

logifail wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the CDC > > Everyone 6 months and older should get a flu vaccine every season with rare exceptions According to the Nuffield Trust[0], international flu vaccination coverage varies widely. It appears from the chart the US is only reaching 65% - 70% of their over-65s with annual flu vaccine. How much does it cost to get the annual flu vaccine in the US? [0] https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/adult-flu-va…

Around here it's free and the pharmacy gives you a $5 coupon for getting it. They definitely see it as an easy way to get people through their doors.

Well, I assume it's covered by insurance but probably not actually free if you don't have insurance.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#230

Post by defgeneric » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

mattwad wrote: post #216

mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

The reason for masks always has been to flatten the curve. The hospitals are too full for everyone just to get it and get it over with, so people without COVID can't get medical help. Right now, the CDC recommends everyone older than 2 years old should wear a mask indoors. This is not just to protect kids but prevent them spreading it. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... .

Are there real statistics on just how many people are being turned away? Hasn't it always been the case that people sometimes have to be turned to another hospital? Wouldn't reform of the horrible mix of public/private hospitals make more sense? It seems to me the risk to the general population isn't really that high, it just makes news because it's a sad story when someone who had a heart attack can't get admitted because some anti-vax moron is taking up space.