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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#431

Post by random314 »

betwixthewires wrote: post #403
tharne wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's highly ignorant to call unvaccinated Americans idiots. Agreed. The correct term for them is "immoral". The only world in which it makes sense to forgo the vaccine is one in which your life is only one that matters. So a healthy unvaccinated person is making a perfectly rational decision, just a morally bankrupt one.

How is it morally bankrupt to care about yourself more than people you don't know?

How does getting a vaccine affect a young healthy person negatively?

It is immoral for the same reason as refusing to help others survive at zero cost to you.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#432

Post by random314 »

bgentry wrote: post #297
rattlesnakedave wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time. Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines. Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinate…

>There is NO reason to not be vaccinated at this point if you can be. If you've already had COVID, especially recently, that's a pretty damn good reason to not get vaccinated given that your immunity is likely far stronger and more durable than a vaccinated-but-COVID-naïve person. [1] While getting vaccinated on top might help (there is not definitive data on this yet AFAIK [2]), it is also not 100% risk-free. So why…

None of these studies suggest that getting a vaccine increases your risk. It can only decrease it.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#433

Post by random314 »

crackercrews wrote: post #367
rattlesnakedave wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time. Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines. Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinate…

> a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective I understand that there have been very few deaths or serious injuries from the vaccines. At the same time, I am aware of the unexplained menstrual side effects. I completely understand why women who plan to have children, and parents of girls, don't view the vaccine as zero risk.

Citation?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#434

Post by random314 »

rangerdan wrote: post #235
rattlesnakedave wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time. Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines. Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinate…

"Safe and effective" yet we don't even have a full year of data on it. How are people this clueless?

Are you talking about 1 year of data post infection or post vaccination?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#435

Post by throwawayfear »

vaidhy wrote: post #397
spfzero wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they've already had and recovered from Covid, as in the case of this 100 MM, their case fatality rate is nothing near that, and may well be lower than that for vaccinated-but-never-infected people. Their choice is this, if they are otherwise healthy and young: With protection as good or better than the vaccinated, should I get a shot that might lower my already minuscule chance of dying or serious disease by a fur…

Let us assume person x already got covid? The rationale for refusing the vaccine is either (a) they believe they do not need it or (b) they do so on ideological belief. If it is (a), evidence shows that covid + vaccine is better than either alone and hence no reason to refuse the vaccine. If it is (b), there is perfect justification for calling that stancy as an idiotic stance.

It is true that evidence suggests past infection + vaccine is best. But the evidence also shows that antibodies from past infection are superior to two shots of Pfizer which the majority of people were rolling with maskless just fine.

So regarding option a, it’s moreso the case that there’s no legitimate reason TO bother with the vaccine if you have those antibodies already. A marginal improvement at best over what is already better than two shots of Pfizer, is not worth the long-term unknowns to me.

Source:

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on...

There is also new evidence that it may be safer for boys to just get covid rather than vaccination.

Source:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...

Knowing this, will you still say there’s no reason to refuse it? Why would you elevate yourself into a position where you believe yourself to be an arbiter of this? The evidence is clear that the antibodies tens of millions already have from past infection are excellent. So stop coming up with false dilemmas.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#436

Post by 542354234235 »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #169
542354234235 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sounds like another policy/politicized blanket statement not based on science. Or, it is public health advice based on science, looking at what they believe would be the most effective policy globally. They aren’t saying it does or doesn’t affect the level of antibodies. They aren’t arguing that it is effective or ineffective at boosting an individual’s immunity. You seem to be fundamentally confused about what they…

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.h... looking at the map above tells me people in rich western countries are dying from covid at 2-8x rates of people in the developing countries with some exceptions(Brazil, Peru, Mexico). How on earth do you make any morality based policy calls based on this data?

>How on earth do you make any morality based policy calls based on this data?

Well, you make those calls by looking more deeply into data than a country level map. In the US, the majority of states are at or near the point where vaccine supply is higher than demand. [1] The people that wanted vaccines got vaccines and the majority of the unvaccinated are that way by choice. We also know that over 98% of covid hospitalizations are those very same unvaccinated [2], showing that even with breakthrough infections, the vaccine is still very effective at preventing “serious” cases of covid. At The same time, we have a 25% reduction in the estimated available vaccines worldwide through the end of the year and poor countries that are reliant on vaccine aid delivered by rich nations have received a fraction of what was pledged. [3]

Giving boosters to people in rich countries that are already highly protected and not at risk of significant illness and death while failing to send aid to provide any protection at all to the most vulnerable population is not exactly a morality based policy. Using vaccination rates of people that have access to vaccines and choose not to get them (and are dying based off that choice) as justification for this is ignorant at best, immoral in itself at worst.

[1] https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/supply-vs-demand-which-stat... [2] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-08/global-va...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#437

Post by CydeWeys »

samtheprogram wrote: post #336
CydeWeys wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it to protect the unvaccinated? COVID is not going away, so IMO here we just want everyone in this population to get the disease as fast as possible to get it over with. No we definitely do not want that. There are large deaths of the country where vaccinated people are dying of unrelated conditions simply because hospitals are too full of dying unvaccinated COVID patients. The only way this works is if hospital…

Where are people dying because the hospitals are too full of unvaccinated patients dying of COVID-19?

Alabama, for one: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/us/alabama-heart-patient-icu-...

There is a finite healthcare capacity (largely based on the number of doctors and nurses). Once it's exceeded, people start dying who otherwise could've been saved had the full amount of healthcare resources been available.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#438

Post by floxy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #156
MontagFTB wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe a serious issue with your “protect the unvaccinated” statement is it overlooks the amount of pressure they exert on our shared medical system. If your hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others.

> hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others Was in Jackson Hole for Labor Day weekend. They border Idaho, whose voluntarily unvaccinated have filled its hospitals. In four days I met as many nurses and one doctor who quit out of frustration. They could no longer empathise with their patients, each describing a visceral anger at tending to ICUs of COVID patients, all unv…

Percentage of 65+ people in Idaho with at least one covid vaccine dose: 93.2%

Percentage of 65+ people in Wyoming with at least one covid vaccine dose: 89.2%.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-trac...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#439

Post by macintux »

dham wrote: post #430
macintux wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If obesity could be prevented with a simple shot, and was otherwise overwhelming our healthcare system, that might be a useful question.

I mean you could get Osha to start banning foods or do whatever with the jurisdiction they have now. Tax sugar out of existence. Then government subsidize all healthier foods. I mean the amount of money we spent no Covid we could have done all this.... But wait are you saying people should be able to make their on decisions? Obesity effects only a single person. Nope obesity is transmissible. I've seen too many coupl…

No one in the history of the world has died from obesity two weeks after simply spending time with another obese person.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#440

Post by ufo »

adolph wrote: post #408
ufo wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the study design. Infections are detected by doing a PCR covid test. However, different studies might have different criteria for exactly who gets tested.

PCR doesn’t differentiate between live and dead virus molecules, which makes it less than diagnostic for active infection without symptoms, right?

That distinction isn't as important for evaluating vaccine efficacy. It wants to measure if the person was infected, not if the person is infectious.
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