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September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

911realtime.org

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Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#401

Post by maybelsyrup »

refenestrator wrote: post #399
maybelsyrup wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was a SNAFU of competing interests and stupid bureaucracy. I hear where you're coming from, but after 20 years, there are several parts of the story for which I can no longer believe this was the case, or use this explanation to give the benefit of the doubt. (There are many other parts for which it does make sense.) I'll save myself looking like an internet crank and just suggest you give the podcast I linked t…

> the idea that the professionals to whom we give vast sums to be excellent at lying, cheating, stealing, killing, and betrayal - spies, in other words - should be given a sort of "Mister Magoo" benefit of the doubt when lots of people die -- that's, for me these days, the more extraordinary claim. That's where we differ. They're Mr. Magoo with money in my opinion. How many brilliant exploits have they ever had? Even…

Yeah, a lot of this comes down to your epistemic position. Agree to disagree then. Thanks for sharing your perspective!

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#402

Post by refenestrator »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #401
refenestrator wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the idea that the professionals to whom we give vast sums to be excellent at lying, cheating, stealing, killing, and betrayal - spies, in other words - should be given a sort of "Mister Magoo" benefit of the doubt when lots of people die -- that's, for me these days, the more extraordinary claim. That's where we differ. They're Mr. Magoo with money in my opinion. How many brilliant exploits have they ever had? Even…

Yeah, a lot of this comes down to your epistemic position. Agree to disagree then. Thanks for sharing your perspective!

Cheers!

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#403

Post by rtkwe »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #363
rtkwe wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be more likely to damage enough of the cooling and control systems to cause an issue but it most likely wouldn't lead to a meltdown since Indian Point was a PWR reactor and those use the liquid water as a moderator so if it starts to overheat it naturally lowers it's own reactivity.

Of course it's a little more complicated than that, because decay heat is the concern in a loss of cooling scenario. Having said that, I can't speak to the Indian Point design at all.

Yeah it will but at least that's also a negative feedback too as the fuel heats up the neutrons appear to be moving faster on the average.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#404

Post by jcranmer »

cblconfederate wrote: post #154

Almost everyone remembers what they were doing when the events happened, a Flashbulb Memory. There's actually research on the specific memories of 9/11 : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925254/ Anyone remember what they were doing the next day at the same time?

I actually remember three things about 9/12:

* I remember being the first one up to check if we had school that day (we did not).

* I remember counting the number of stories in the paper that day that did not involve the attacks.

* We had some Canadians staying with us that week, so we spent a large part of the next day comparing the events from an American versus a Canadian perspective. I distinctly remember one of the Canadians being salty about the international flights being diverted to Canada instead of the US.

[ Note: said Canadians had been planning to visit the National Mall on 9/11... needless to say, that visit did not end up happening. ]

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#405

Post by tommymachine »

kelnos wrote: post #392
tommymachine wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So heart disease and cancer don't take up ICU beds?

Keeping yourself out of an ICU bed by avoiding a heart attack or getting cancer is likely a lot harder than getting a COVID vaccine. If we assume that the biggest cause of heart disease is obesity and poor general health-keeping, the solution there is to completely change your lifestyle: new diet, new exercise regimen, etc. While I think people who are at risk should probably do that, that's a much heavier lift than…

It would be interesting to see the numbers on being overweight vs vaccinated, and seeing which is more correlated with covid severity.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#406

Post by TeeMassive »

polytely wrote: post #64
chitowneats wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heart disease and cancer kill many more: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm... Beware the myopia that sensationalist news coverage tends to encourage. Never forget all the lives lost. Not just the 3000+ we lost on that horrible day (RIP), but the millions more around the world lost in the wake of the actions we chose, as a nation, to take in the "war on terror".

Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your actions on that front will only improve your own life, while being a bit more careful with covid will potentially prevent sickness in a lot of people.

> Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious

And? They still kill people and clog the healthcare systems around the world. Worse a lot of those are aggravated by obesity and smoking, all of which not only are voluntary actions but also generate profits. Also obesity is contagious: http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1646997,0...

Also average Covid death age is only 4 years lower than the pre-pandemic life expectancy in the US. And what is the biggest aggravating factors for Covid-19? Obesity and smoking.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#407

Post by [deleted] »

leesalminen wrote: post #29

9/11 was my birthday, and I was just outside of NYC in school that day. I was in math class. The phone in the classroom rang and my teacher turned on the radio (1010 WINS) immediately. After hearing what had happened she broke down in tears because her husband worked in WTC. My parents worked in NYC (as did most of my classmates' parents) and was very concerned. The school district evacuated the elementary schools to…

[deleted]

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#408

Post by hunter-gatherer »

542458 wrote: post #295
bradknowles wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the towers were first built, one of the design questions was whether or not they could survive being hit by a 747 — on accident, presumably. So, that issue was taken into consideration. At the time of the attack, more modern aircraft were used, which had much thinner skins and were much more lightly constructed. Which means that they got much more shredded by the building construction as they passed through, and…

The 747s simulated were also near-empty and flying slow, as the assumption was an accidental collision from an airplane lost in fog trying to land. They never simulated one nearly full of fuel running full-tilt.

Interesting. Do you have a reference by chance? I had no idea such simulations were run but in curious to learn more about it.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#409

Post by atdrummond »

bradknowles wrote: post #267
542458 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Indian Point - containment buildings are pretty armoured by design. The Indian point containment vessel walls are several feet of high-grade steel reinforced concrete. You might be thinking of the skinny, low quality rebar used in common construction at this point - this isn’t that, the rebar here is 2.25 inches thick, made of good-quality steel, and spaced every fifteen inches or so. The containment building is…

When the towers were first built, one of the design questions was whether or not they could survive being hit by a 747 — on accident, presumably. So, that issue was taken into consideration. At the time of the attack, more modern aircraft were used, which had much thinner skins and were much more lightly constructed. Which means that they got much more shredded by the building construction as they passed through, and…

The two towers were designed to sustain an accidental hit by a 707 on a descent trajectory.

They were instead purposely hit by much larger 747s and at a much higher cruising speed. This meant that the kinetic energy transfer was approximately 8x larger than expected. The 747s at the time of impact also held significantly more fuel (at least 100% more) than those utilised in the 707 attack model.

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