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A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

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Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#91

Post by barbazoo »

aerosmile wrote: post #44
gewa wrote: post #26

As a German I have to emphasize that this has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced…

It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortab…

> It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself.

Is that a fact? That's news to me. You might not hear as much "unloading" in Germany simply because it's not yet as polarized as it is in the US but certainly there wouldn't be any repercussions as far as I'm aware. What exactly are you talking about?

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#92

Post by danielheath »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #83
paranoidrobot wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree. I can only assume you're referring to the US's Constitution. Rights that are apparently guaranteed by the US Constitution are routinely ignored by all levels of US Government. You may get your day in court, you may even have the court rule in your favour. That does not mean you're made whole, or that the governm…

Rights do not emenate from a dusty scrap of parchment a few hundred years ago. They are immutable.

Moral rights, perhaps.

Legal rights? Extremely mutable.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#94

Post by SeanLuke »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #80

To be fair, in the last 4 years especially, the US has set its own precedent of raiding the homes of political opponents, supporters and even lawyers. In one case last year, a person was even visited by officers for simply saying a politician’s rhetoric was “underwhelming”. To say nothing of the peaceful protestors who have been detained, in some cases without charges or even access to lawyers. We may like to think w…

Citation needed. Use of police force in the ways you're describing is exceedingly rare in the US. If there is an uptick in the last 4 years, it would seem to me mostly due to the increase in death threats against politicians and their families by an increasingly polarized right wing.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#95

Post by yann2 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #63
tomschlick wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insulting someone with words and punching them in the face are two drastically different things.

Because as an American you put the border at physical violence but think verbal violence doesn't matter. You see that as freedom. I see it as a lack of culture. Far more than an ocean separates these two continents. Note that it is entirely play pretend anyway. I know for a fact that I can actually say and do far more here than the American society would tolerate in the USA.

Jesus Christ..European cultural "superiority" was used to justify colonization of people around the world by literally every European country.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#96

Post by codewithcheese »

jimmaswell wrote: post #86
codewithcheese wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more free than me How are we meant to make sense of your comment, if you don't state which country your from/in? I see this often, commenters presuming we know which country they are in.

"as an American" referred to me

Ahhhhh, My parser failed on that terse grammar. Doh!

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#97

Post by hervature »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #79
tomschlick wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the line of physical violence is pretty clear cut. The line at which someone gets offended is not and can vary drastically depending on the person, religion, current events, etc. Laws need clear definitions.

Insulting someone has an actual definition. It is not about being offended.

Is calling someone fat when they are indeed fat an insult? It obviously depends on context, intent, and delivery. Any definition is going to be nebulous.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#98

Post by nautilius »

cercatrova wrote: post #50

Reading things like these in other (even developed, Western) nations: - UK surveillance state powers, anti-porn laws - Australian laws to detain you, break encryption - This German incident I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree.

If this refers to the US: Is this sarcastic?

Does the name Edward Snowden ring a bell, and the total surveillance state programs in the US, against US citizens, he revealed?

-the perpetual drive of FBI etc to have e.g. phones decrypted, or have companies install back doors? (e.g. Bernardino)?

- the last administrations systematic programs against ‘unpleasant’ journalists?

- black sites and places like Guantanamo that you could just disappear to?

- civil forfeiture laws that allow the police, without any process, to take your personal property, without any wrongdoing on your part?

- how many people are killed by police in those other countries (at all), and also, how many times does this lead to a prosecution of the officer in question?

Etc.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#99

Post by Littlebigo »

cercatrova wrote: post #50

Reading things like these in other (even developed, Western) nations: - UK surveillance state powers, anti-porn laws - Australian laws to detain you, break encryption - This German incident I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree.

Freedom to not have any vacations for years, freedom to not get medical aid, freedom to get fired over Twitter on a whim, freedom to get shot by the police, freedom to be subject to government surveillance, freedom to have a flawed democracy, freedom to have your children shot in school by deranged classmates... Freedom doesn't necessarily mean "better".

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#100

Post by orangeoxidation »

Barrin92 wrote: post #9

The German basic law protects people's personal honour (article 5, freedom of expression), and this goes back hundreds of years. ( strafrechtlicher Ehrschutz ). > "These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons and in the right to personal honour. " This is reflected in the German criminal code Beleidigung (Insult), unchanged for about 150 yea…

> This extends to everyone, not just politicians.

Yeah, but insulting your neighbor will not have the police raid your home at six in the morning.

This case is not business as usual, it is a widely disproportional response. Hence the outrage.

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