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A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

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Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#81

Post by thaumasiotes »

lrae wrote: post #2

I didn't want to editorialize the original title, but to add to it: 1) The insult used was "pimmel", german for "dick". 2) According to netzpolitik.org, the offender was summoned by the police before that, did show up, and did confirm there that it was his account. https://netzpolitik.org/2021/andy-grote-was-fuer-eine-pimmel... [german]

> I didn't want to editorialize the original title

Somebody needs to - the title on Hacker News says the opposite of what the article title says.

HN: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then raided his house.

Reality: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then had his house raided by the police.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#82

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

zepto wrote: post #64
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then most of the world isn't free I fear. Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone? You can't punch people in the USA. Does that make the country not particularly free?

Can you not tell the difference between physical violence and words?

Worlds can hurt just as much if not more. Insults are unneeded. They are unnecessary to a discussion and they are a form of violence. Why should they be legal?

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#83

Post by calvinmorrison »

paranoidrobot wrote: post #71
cercatrova wrote: post #50

Reading things like these in other (even developed, Western) nations: - UK surveillance state powers, anti-porn laws - Australian laws to detain you, break encryption - This German incident I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree.

> I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree. I can only assume you're referring to the US's Constitution. Rights that are apparently guaranteed by the US Constitution are routinely ignored by all levels of US Government. You may get your day in court, you may even have the court rule in your favour. That does not mean you're made whole, or that the governm…

Rights do not emenate from a dusty scrap of parchment a few hundred years ago. They are immutable.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#84

Post by thaumasiotes »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #79
tomschlick wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the line of physical violence is pretty clear cut. The line at which someone gets offended is not and can vary drastically depending on the person, religion, current events, etc. Laws need clear definitions.

Insulting someone has an actual definition. It is not about being offended.

Whatever definition you provide, there will be an infinite number of insults that don't match it, or an infinite number of compliments that do.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#85

Post by vxNsr »

simonh wrote: post #42
jimmaswell wrote: post #7

And as an American, Germans/Australians/etc. will still insist they're more free than me because of something arbitrary like free healthcare. I don't think there's anywhere I'd feel particularly more "free" all things considered aside from maybe Mars.

I suppose it depends how you look at it. There are different kinds of freedom. My main concern in the US is the absurd levels of incarceration over there, often for relatively trivial nonviolent offences that aren’t even crimes in many countries, and the politicisation of the judicial system. I’m a lot more confident I’d get fair treatment from the justice system in most European countries than I would in the US. The…

> My main concern in the US is the absurd levels of incarceration over there, often for relatively trivial nonviolent offences that aren’t even crimes in many countries, and the politicisation of the judicial system.

That’s such an odd thing to say on a article about someone getting their home raided bec they called someone a dick in Europe…

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#86

Post by jimmaswell »

codewithcheese wrote: post #61
jimmaswell wrote: post #7

And as an American, Germans/Australians/etc. will still insist they're more free than me because of something arbitrary like free healthcare. I don't think there's anywhere I'd feel particularly more "free" all things considered aside from maybe Mars.

> more free than me How are we meant to make sense of your comment, if you don't state which country your from/in? I see this often, commenters presuming we know which country they are in.

"as an American" referred to me

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#87

Post by milesvp »

l33t2328 wrote: post #59
simonh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends how you look at it. There are different kinds of freedom. My main concern in the US is the absurd levels of incarceration over there, often for relatively trivial nonviolent offences that aren’t even crimes in many countries, and the politicisation of the judicial system. I’m a lot more confident I’d get fair treatment from the justice system in most European countries than I would in the US. The…

> offences that aren’t even crimes in many countries Like what? Drugs are becoming decriminalized the world over, but this is an extremely recent phenomenon.

Like driving while poor. It’s very very common for someone to get a fine that they can not pay, then lose their drivers license for failure to pay. Then get stopped and have to deal with driving without a license, which can include jail time.

Source: good friend was a public defender.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#88

Post by AmericanChopper »

gewa wrote: post #26

As a German I have to emphasize that this has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced…

> I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened

It happened because you allowed your politicians to pass laws that regulate allowable speech, as many other countries have done. I’m sure it was controversial, but most likely also had a considerable amount of support from people who didn’t like the kinds of speech they thought this would criminalize. A distinctive feature of this case is that it has created a public controversy, but if this has happened you can be sure many people have already fallen victim to this injustice without drawing any sympathy from the general public. Even if there is no prosecution, the police have already succeeded in intimidating the victim, their children, and disrupting their life. This type of speech criminalization will always lead to this type of outcome. It is not a mistake, or an outlier, it is an unavoidable consequence of these policies.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#89

Post by thaumasiotes »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #81
lrae wrote: post #2

I didn't want to editorialize the original title, but to add to it: 1) The insult used was "pimmel", german for "dick". 2) According to netzpolitik.org, the offender was summoned by the police before that, did show up, and did confirm there that it was his account. https://netzpolitik.org/2021/andy-grote-was-fuer-eine-pimmel... [german]

> I didn't want to editorialize the original title Somebody needs to - the title on Hacker News says the opposite of what the article title says. HN: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then raided his house. Reality: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then had his house raided by the police.

This is one of the cases where I'm going to ask why I'm downvoted. The HN title says the opposite of what the WaPo title says. And not only is this not a problem, but I'm causing problems by pointing it out?

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#90

Post by jimmaswell »

lmm wrote: post #32
jimmaswell wrote: post #7

And as an American, Germans/Australians/etc. will still insist they're more free than me because of something arbitrary like free healthcare. I don't think there's anywhere I'd feel particularly more "free" all things considered aside from maybe Mars.

Are they wrong? Which is more likely to affect any given individual? Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in?

> Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in

In my case, the US where I am for sure.

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