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A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

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Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#41

Post by 762236 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #9

The German basic law protects people's personal honour (article 5, freedom of expression), and this goes back hundreds of years. ( strafrechtlicher Ehrschutz ). > "These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons and in the right to personal honour. " This is reflected in the German criminal code Beleidigung (Insult), unchanged for about 150 yea…

Anyone that tailgates me on the Autobahn gets flipped off. I'd like them to explain how they were close enough to see that.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#42

Post by simonh »

jimmaswell wrote: post #7

And as an American, Germans/Australians/etc. will still insist they're more free than me because of something arbitrary like free healthcare. I don't think there's anywhere I'd feel particularly more "free" all things considered aside from maybe Mars.

I suppose it depends how you look at it. There are different kinds of freedom. My main concern in the US is the absurd levels of incarceration over there, often for relatively trivial nonviolent offences that aren’t even crimes in many countries, and the politicisation of the judicial system. I’m a lot more confident I’d get fair treatment from the justice system in most European countries than I would in the US. The relationship between the police and the public in the states also seems dangerously adversarial and does not inspire me with confidence.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#43

Post by chuckee »

lmm wrote: post #32
jimmaswell wrote: post #7

And as an American, Germans/Australians/etc. will still insist they're more free than me because of something arbitrary like free healthcare. I don't think there's anywhere I'd feel particularly more "free" all things considered aside from maybe Mars.

Are they wrong? Which is more likely to affect any given individual? Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in?

> Which is more likely to affect any given individual?

That metric is hilariously wrong. Consider a country with universal healthcare, but where only a single political party is allowed. You're much more likely to face medical issues in your life, than wanting to start your own party and being prevented.

Does that make the one-party-state more free than every country without universal healthcare?

In other words, by phrasing it as "freedom to live in comfort and safety", you are conflating comfort and safety with freedom.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#44

Post by aerosmile »

gewa wrote: post #26

As a German I have to emphasize that this has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced…

It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortable I am today with criticizing people, especially those in power.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#45

Post by lmm »

tomschlick wrote: post #36
lmm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they wrong? Which is more likely to affect any given individual? Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in?

> Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in? Judging by immigration numbers, the US.

Germany has a higher proportion of immigrants than the US, so how do you figure that?

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#46

Post by rob74 »

cheesetable wrote: post #18
hcayless wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guinea is the only recent coup I know of https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-58461436

Note that different people have different criteria for a coup. For example, in the US in Jan 2021, there was a riot that some call a coup, and some do not. Brazil might also count. I am not aware of the details.

It can only be called a coup if it's successful in actually changing the government. If it's not, you can argue endlessly (as in the Jan. 6 case) if it qualifies as an "attempted coup" (which implies that it had a remote chance of succeeding).

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#47

Post by lmm »

chuckee wrote: post #43
lmm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they wrong? Which is more likely to affect any given individual? Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in?

> Which is more likely to affect any given individual? That metric is hilariously wrong. Consider a country with universal healthcare, but where only a single political party is allowed. You're much more likely to face medical issues in your life, than wanting to start your own party and being prevented. Does that make the one-party-state more free than every country without universal healthcare? In other words, by p…

If the one-party-ness doesn't actually affect anyone living there, then yes. Most of us would say that the problems with one-party states are not limited to the tiny minority of people who would want to start a new political party, but also has a large effect on people who disagree with government policies but have no representation.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#48

Post by ms4720 »

tomschlick wrote: post #39
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then most of the world isn't free I fear. Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone? You can't punch people in the USA. Does that make the country not particularly free?

Insulting someone with words and punching them in the face are two drastically different things.

And be very very wary of people and groups that try to erase the difference.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#49

Post by throwawaylinux »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #31
djrogers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to argue that a country where it's illegal to call someone a dick is particularly free, if that indeed is the case.

Then most of the world isn't free I fear. Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone? You can't punch people in the USA. Does that make the country not particularly free?

> Then most of the world isn't free I fear.

I fear that too. Freedom has always been paid for with blood, so if it's just meekly handed back, we are robbing our grandchildren and passing that cost on to them.

That said, what parts of the world are you talking about? If you look at the insults being freely hurled on twitter at politicians around the the English speaking western world, I'm not sure how bad it is here yet. Maybe it's only a problem there if you insult the wrong type of politician?

> Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone?

How do you define an insult? Would it be insulting to call someone a nazi, white supremacist, racist, misogynist, Russian agent, heartless, senile? What if those things were true or you believed them to be true or at least a valid comparison to some degree? What if you call a religion or ideology bad or point out bad things about its teachings? Even if what you say is true, it can still be taken as insults by followers. Should blasphemy be outlawed?

> You can't punch people in the USA. Does that make the country not particularly free?

It does not.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#50

Post by cercatrova »

Reading things like these in other (even developed, Western) nations:

- UK surveillance state powers, anti-porn laws

- Australian laws to detain you, break encryption

- This German incident

I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree.

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