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Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

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Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#121
post #119

Now that organically grown, super high quality marijuana gummies and candies are legally available in many places, why do people still smoke vs. eat it? It seems so much safer and the precise dose predictable.

The effects are quite different for most people due to the lack of first-pass metabolism with inhalation which converts digested THC to a different form. Dry herb vaporizers might be a better suggestion. A friend of mine who's a daily smoker finds the edible effects completely unpredictable and challenging to dose and enjoy compared to smoking or vaping.

Oh I see. Interesting. Thanks.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for illustrating my point so nicely, in response to absolutely no assertions about cannabis .

Indeed, you made no assertions about cannabis; you made an ad hominem assertion that people only minimize any suggestion that cannabis (or smoked meats, or Lisp or anything else) is "not all good" because they like it; as if they could never use any objective tools, like data. All that oceanplexian's response proved "so nicely" is that people will sometimes fall for ad hominem assertions and try to engage them.

Chill, man, maybe have a joint.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#123
post #14

How does this compare to the myocardial infarction risk that occurs in the same population due to cigarette smoking?

* smokes a pack of cigarettes while chugging a pot of coffee * I don't take any medications doc, it must have been the cannabis!

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#124

As a stoner from 16y onwards, I am thrilled to find out I actually survived this risk.

According to this study your odds went up from 0.8% to 1.3% so it’s hardly dodging a bullet.

I am still thrilled.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#126
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because you can’t have a rational discussion about cannabis online. Anything negative is dismissed, apologised away, compared immediately to alcohol or you are accused of providing anecdotes by the proponents. This in itself dismisses the credibility of the proponents in my mind. The funny thing is you don’t see this with alcoholics. They know what they’re doing is bad and admit it easily but can’t stop.

The funny thing is you saying "you can't have a discussion online" as we are having a discussion online and you are responding to someone who said what you were thinking. I am completely open to the concept that cannabis consumption is not always healthy for people, depending on delivery method, quantity, and the state of mind of the individual. I also, almost without qualification, will dismiss the health risks as a…

To clarify a point on the latter, it’s a temporal thing. I used to be a proponent so there’s no Puritanism here.

In my 20s I knew people who used it. I used it myself occasionally. Hell I even dated a dealer once. No problems. Pro legalisation.

In my 30s some of those people drifted away or grew out of it. Apart from a few. They ended up burning their relationships for it due to it being tied intimately to their identity.

In my 40s now I’ve seen the last few people I know who used it suffering through mental health problems. On top of that there have been a few specific events including someone rolling a car onto my front lawn through my fence when speeding. They were prosecuted for drug driving.

I see a lot of people who haven’t tread this path yet and were where I was. This slow decline and the realisation that there are people who genuinely are unable to act rationally and put others at risk suggests that apart from medical use the net benefit to society is negative.

Now the real negative basis is mental health and at least here in the UK there isn’t the care or support for anyone already. Adding cannabis usage to that is a disaster waiting to happen.

Ultimately the long term study is something we’re not going to have the answers to for over 30 years as we see the impact on society. Hopefully by then it won’t be another fuck up like adding lead to gas.

But even ignoring that effect, most people smoke it and smoking is monumentally bad for you regardless of what you are smoking.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a person who doesn’t drink caffeine, alcohol, or any other drug (including aspirin and other non psychoactives) can approach making this claim. Hell, you could say the same thing to someone who enjoys a small dessert every night. Or a bath. So long as they’d feel sad to not have it, they are then avoiding a problem, right? Or… humans just really enjoy having diverse things to do, and all find different balances…

I'm not going to go into the nuances of prolonged THC exposure and how it affects brain chemistry, especially under the guise of self-medication but you're not acting in good faith of our discussion by comparing THC to taking a bath.

I could link to a handful of very positive studies for THC, and a handful of negative. Here's a fun recent one showing that THC has potential mTOR1 activation and CNS myelination effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32956517/

I could similarly link to about 10 pretty scary studies for caffeine, especially effect on brain structure and sleep quality.

Or should we do sugar?

The dose makes the poison for anything, it's not clear THC isn't beneficial at a lower dose. It's medically prescribed for cancer pain relief, and for a segment of people its anxiolytic effects are incredible.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a person who doesn’t drink caffeine, alcohol, or any other drug (including aspirin and other non psychoactives) can approach making this claim. Hell, you could say the same thing to someone who enjoys a small dessert every night. Or a bath. So long as they’d feel sad to not have it, they are then avoiding a problem, right? Or… humans just really enjoy having diverse things to do, and all find different balances…

I'm not going to go into the nuances of prolonged THC exposure and how it affects brain chemistry, especially under the guise of self-medication but you're not acting in good faith of our discussion by comparing THC to taking a bath.

> I'm not going to go into the nuances of prolonged THC exposure and how it affects brain chemistry

I'm not even apart of this debate, and now I am curious. Do you mind sharing what you have found?

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#130
post #48

The more shocking takeaway for me is that ~1% of people under 45 have had a heart attack (cannabis use is a rounding error)! That's higher than I would have guessed.

More than 1% are fat slobs. So is it really surprising? The obesity prevalence was 40.0% among adults aged 20 to 39 years, 44.8% among adults aged 40 to 59 years, and 42.8% among adults aged 60 and older. (2021) https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

I'm not sure the effect of obesity is that massive. Look at the curves in Fig 2 here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6503652/bin/VHR... From the text of that paper it looks like being obese ~doubles your risk at a given age, and it looks like age is the highest risk. It looks like the cumulative risk of being obese AND 80 puts your risk at about ~12% for having a heart attack. Hard to tell from that graph if the 45 year old data is consistent with the study in this paper or not.
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