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UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

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Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#71

Post by mytailorisrich »

mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

Many countries have compulsory immunization for a set of diseases with disclosure mandated to enrol, for example, in a nursery or primary school.

This is a question of coherency and political courage: Either Covid immunization is of critical importance for public health, which is essentially what we're told, and governments must have the courage to act accordingly, or it is "nice to have" if a person so decides and governments should equally act accordingly.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#72

Post by da_big_ghey »

sennight wrote: post #65
nickthemagicman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses and people can make their own choices and run their lives how they see fit. That's literally the definition of freedom. The government exists to provide a safe framework to protect property and to provide for the common defense for people to live free and make thier own choices.

So in your world there are no seatbelt laws and people are free to drink raw milk? Must be nice.

Yes, exactly correct at least for me. Two excellent example. These are mostly victimless, if somebody make a bad choice here he is harming himself. Seatbelt law for small children though is maybe okay.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#73

Post by nomdep »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #61
nomdep wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone with AIDS is not their responsibility to warn people before sex or to use a condom… wait IT IS! How about driving drunk? Fuck everyone else am I right? So stop whining and putting everyone at risk only because something is mildly inconvenient to you. Grow up already

Does it happen.... all the time? yes yes it does. You need to grow up and accept that other people aren't out there to protect you like Mommy and Daddy. The world does not exist to hold your hand. Never had been. Your life, your responsibility, your choices. That is the essence of freedom and it's beautiful. It's too bad you would sacrifice freedom for safety.

You should go back to your bunker now.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#74

Post by Chris2048 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #25
minikites wrote: post #6

Why does the freedom to infect others outweigh the freedom to survive a preventable disease? You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the social compact to follow as it suits you.

If you leave quarantine you expose yourself to risk. It's your choice to leave quarantine or not. It's your choice to get a vaccine or not. This is a personal responsibility issue. Not a society wide issue. It's never been anyone's responsibility to wear a bubble suit to protect immuno-compromised people, or stop eating meat because of people with high cholesterol.. and it's not anyone's responsibility to get a vacci…

> or stop eating meat because of people with high cholesterol

that doesn't make sense - why would you eating meat harm people with high cholesterol?

> It's never been anyone's responsibility to wear a bubble suit to protect immuno-compromised people

if you're a doctor treating them (or a friend visiting) it is

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#75

Post by xadhominemx »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #68
xadhominemx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s never been required for jobs because historically the most virulent transmissible diseases were spread by children and adolescents. And in Germany of course the Labor Minister is going to push back on anything demanded by any employer - there is no information in his position.

Flu was spread a lot in many workplace where I've been, among adults. No flu shot requirement. Anybody who want a requirement for coronavirus vaccine should had flu shot requirement these past years or at least should make one now.

COVID is much more deadly than the flu, though. While I guess it makes sense to draw the line somewhere, I could see more employers mandating flu shot in the future.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#76

Post by mc32 »

chadash wrote: post #69
mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

> I hope this gets settled by the labor board or the Supreme Court rather than companies takin that mantle to impose a mandate themselves. Generally, the default is that private companies can discriminate however they please. In certain cases we've decided that that's not good for a society (race, religion, ethnicity), so we restrict their ability to do that. But why shouldn't private companies be allowed to make the…

That could possibly be permissible for new employees signing a new agreement.

However, “legacy” employees never signed any document of employment stating they were required to disclose vaccination status the way you are told you will have provide proof of identity and so on prior to onboardung.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#77

Post by grumpitron »

zhte415 wrote: post #50
z2 wrote: post #13

The linked Bloomberg news article is a much more informative source than this summary of Twitter comments. If anything, it doesn't make the mistake of calling the bank the "USB Group". https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-02/ubs-ceo-s...

Indeed missing the AG. https://www.ubs.com/global/en/our-firm/governance/ubs-group-...

…and getting the order of the 3 letters in “UBS” wrong

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#78

Post by spywaregorilla »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #67
spywaregorilla wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The societal risk of infecting immuno compromised people with random generic disease is small. Scale matters. Similarly you're not allowed to walk around new york if you're confirmed to be carrying a novel strain of ebola. Permitting individuals to choose to be vaccinated and building owners to choose to forbid vaccinated people seems reasonable to me. Sacrificing individual freedoms for the mutual benefit of the lar…

What's the correct scale though? To a large number of people.... a survivability of 99.99% is an acceptable risk for people to go out in society freely, like you have with most age groups in Covid. To some people ONE death is too many because the value of a human life is priceless. What's the correct, scientifically determined, objective scale of people dying, to allow the government to turn things into a medical fas…

1) Things don't fall into the set of {objective, irrelevant}. There is also "subjective". Which is why we vote to agree on things as a group.

2) There are middle grounds between fascist states and passing some regulations

3) The news being a fearmongering whore doesn't invalidate the fact that some of what it reports may be a genuine threat

4) The right of america has historically fond of "if you don't like it, you can go to another country". Surely it's strictly less impactful to say "if you don't like it, you can work from home".

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#79

Post by sennight »

kthejoker2 wrote: post #70
sennight wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, so murder by... bullying? Guilt tripping? The shamelessness of the lying is impressive.

We can quibble over what is a "murder", but assigning blame of a suicide due to PTSD on the cause of the trauma is not a new concept.

PTSD so strong as to almost instantly result in suicide? Wow. Being an actual combat vet, I can tell you with authority that your time would be better spent looking up "moral injury" instead of researching definitions for PTSD that fit your usage. That wouldn't fit the lie, though.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#80

Post by bluGill »

sennight wrote: post #57
nisegami wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a business has a legitimate incentive to want their employees vaccinated. Every Covid infection is lost productivity. And if it goes poorly, that could be an empty seat that now needs to be filled.

There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity. You really want that? That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done.

> There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity

We carefully place limits for things like race. However those are narrow things.

> That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done.

That is one reason companies don't mandate everything (although it is mandated): companies with good maternity leave policies are more attractive to potential employees. This is more valuable than the time lost.

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