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UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

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Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#51

Post by spywaregorilla »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #25
minikites wrote: post #6

Why does the freedom to infect others outweigh the freedom to survive a preventable disease? You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the social compact to follow as it suits you.

If you leave quarantine you expose yourself to risk. It's your choice to leave quarantine or not. It's your choice to get a vaccine or not. This is a personal responsibility issue. Not a society wide issue. It's never been anyone's responsibility to wear a bubble suit to protect immuno-compromised people, or stop eating meat because of people with high cholesterol.. and it's not anyone's responsibility to get a vacci…

The societal risk of infecting immuno compromised people with random generic disease is small. Scale matters. Similarly you're not allowed to walk around new york if you're confirmed to be carrying a novel strain of ebola.

Permitting individuals to choose to be vaccinated and building owners to choose to forbid vaccinated people seems reasonable to me. Sacrificing individual freedoms for the mutual benefit of the larger group is the very core concept of society.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#52

Post by literallyaduck »

andybak wrote: post #24
literallyaduck wrote: post #11

First they identify the outsiders. Next they eliminate them.

What does that mean?

They can use this as a way to get the people who don't vaccinate to self identify by luring them into "you don't have to come back to the office, you can work from home".

Once people have been identified they will have the list of people to let go.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1938-nazi-law-forced-...

Read this and substitute Jew for Antivaxer:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_p...

Using the term antivaxer is the first step to dehumanizing people.

Next, comes "the antivaxers have a choice" conversations and some of them do, some have a mental block ( could be called mental illness), some may have what they perceive as a healthy fear of the government, which is justified as the government has done some pretty shady things like giving people Syphilis under the guise of medical care.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#53

Post by xadhominemx »

mc32 wrote: post #42
xadhominemx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immunization status has never really been considered private. It’s been the norm for 100 years for immunizations to be disclosed to schools, to foreign governments for international travel, to certain types of employers, etc.

And yet it’s never been required for most types of jobs. And here the labor minister is coming down on the side of employees. And it’s important to note, companies are requiring vaccination status whether you’re hybrid or fully remote. Fully remote offering no exposure risk to the company.

It’s never been required for jobs because historically the most virulent transmissible diseases were spread by children and adolescents. And in Germany of course the Labor Minister is going to push back on anything demanded by any employer - there is no information in his position.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#54

Post by nomdep »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #25
minikites wrote: post #6

Why does the freedom to infect others outweigh the freedom to survive a preventable disease? You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the social compact to follow as it suits you.

If you leave quarantine you expose yourself to risk. It's your choice to leave quarantine or not. It's your choice to get a vaccine or not. This is a personal responsibility issue. Not a society wide issue. It's never been anyone's responsibility to wear a bubble suit to protect immuno-compromised people, or stop eating meat because of people with high cholesterol.. and it's not anyone's responsibility to get a vacci…

For someone with AIDS is not their responsibility to warn people before sex or to use a condom… wait IT IS!

How about driving drunk? Fuck everyone else am I right?

So stop whining and putting everyone at risk only because something is mildly inconvenient to you. Grow up already

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#55

Post by nickthemagicman »

sennight wrote: post #26
nickthemagicman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that the government exists to social engineer society.

... and businesses do?

Businesses and people can make their own choices and run their lives how they see fit.

That's literally the definition of freedom.

The government exists to provide a safe framework to protect property and to provide for the common defense for people to live free and make thier own choices.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#56

Post by mc32 »

londons_explore wrote: post #44
mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

Companies are potentially putting themselves in quite a lot of legal risk... For example, imagine a worker infects and kills another worker, and there is evidence of that (for example an office air filter is tested and finds high COVID-19 levels). Now the company has opened itself up to corporate manslaughter charges because they didn't do enough to keep their office disease free. Cases of 'long covid' could also be…

Does that mean there is standing to sue companies for not mitigating other transmissible diseases that could be mitigated by screening and other methods employers don’t currently carry out?

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#57

Post by sennight »

nisegami wrote: post #28
sennight wrote: post #14

The fact that anyone would think it is the responsibility of employers to force others to do anything... just amazing. You know that there is a system already in place to do that, right? It is even designed to guard against abuses that businesses aren't equipped for: this is a function of government. If you want to force your vision of the world on others - lobby the government, that is what it is there for.

But a business has a legitimate incentive to want their employees vaccinated. Every Covid infection is lost productivity. And if it goes poorly, that could be an empty seat that now needs to be filled.

There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity. You really want that? That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#58

Post by tclst »

The Bloomberg article this site links to states that "as governments struggle to encourage vaccine skeptics to take the shot, companies are increasingly using access to company premises as a clear incentive."

I wonder if companies overestimate how much their employees like working fully on-site.

Of course, this was how things were in the past for most people. But it's not like work from home is inferior across the board and we're all eager to ditch it once we can. "Tying" vaccination with the possibility to get back to the office sounds like they think that's the case.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#59

Post by chadash »

For many at UBS this is going to be an invitation to leave. UBS is in the business of asset management and investment banking; these are two areas where relationship building is very important and it's hard to do that over zoom. Sure, for a few months, you can maybe swing it, but if this policy lasts long term, say goodbye to any chance of a promotion, if they let you stick around at all. Sure, maybe some support staff can swing it, but if you're a banker there, you're gonna have to be vaxxed.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#60

Post by londons_explore »

mc32 wrote: post #56
londons_explore wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are potentially putting themselves in quite a lot of legal risk... For example, imagine a worker infects and kills another worker, and there is evidence of that (for example an office air filter is tested and finds high COVID-19 levels). Now the company has opened itself up to corporate manslaughter charges because they didn't do enough to keep their office disease free. Cases of 'long covid' could also be…

Does that mean there is standing to sue companies for not mitigating other transmissible diseases that could be mitigated by screening and other methods employers don’t currently carry out?

I suspect there is.

The reason we don't see more cases is because it's very hard to prove that you got the disease from a workplace rather than from some other source.

Also, there aren't many workplace-transmissible diseases in the first world that are too deadly.

Workplace injuries like getting injured by machines are far easier to prove.

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