Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

remoteclan.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 117 posts

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#61

Post by nickthemagicman »

nomdep wrote: post #54
nickthemagicman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you leave quarantine you expose yourself to risk. It's your choice to leave quarantine or not. It's your choice to get a vaccine or not. This is a personal responsibility issue. Not a society wide issue. It's never been anyone's responsibility to wear a bubble suit to protect immuno-compromised people, or stop eating meat because of people with high cholesterol.. and it's not anyone's responsibility to get a vacci…

For someone with AIDS is not their responsibility to warn people before sex or to use a condom… wait IT IS! How about driving drunk? Fuck everyone else am I right? So stop whining and putting everyone at risk only because something is mildly inconvenient to you. Grow up already

Does it happen.... all the time?

yes yes it does.

You need to grow up and accept that other people aren't out there to protect you like Mommy and Daddy.

The world does not exist to hold your hand.

Never had been.

Your life, your responsibility, your choices.

That is the essence of freedom and it's beautiful.

It's too bad you would sacrifice freedom for safety.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#62

Post by sennight »

minikites wrote: post #45
sennight wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...killed several police officers. lol, nothing has ever not happened more than this. If this isn't a parody representation of somebody who definitely shouldn't have any say about anybody else's health decisions, but an honest reflection of what you really believe... you should really think on how you came to be so badly mislead - and to what end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_att... >Brian Sicknick, a 42-year-old responding Capitol Police officer, was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day, after which he was placed on life support, and soon died. >In the immediate aftermath of the attack, some members of Congress and press reports included these two suicides in the number of reported casualt…

Yeah, so murder by... bullying? Guilt tripping? The shamelessness of the lying is impressive.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#63

Post by [deleted] »

occz wrote: post #35
swayvil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My local Amish people work, shop and live together every day. No vax. And their health is unchanged. I think that the threat posed by covid, and the necessity of the vax, has been exaggerated.

> I think that the threat posed by covid, and the necessity of the vax, has been exaggerated. You think wrong. Please stop spreading misinformation.

[deleted]

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#64

Post by fy20 »

mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

In Lithuania there is the "opportunity passport" which was designed to show you are safe. You can get it if you are fully vaccinated, have recovered (identified by a positive PCR test or have antibodies), or have had a negative PCR test in the last 48 hours. This allows you to show you are 'safe' without disclosing whether you have been vaccinated or not, so it solves the privacy issue.

There is of course controversy even with this, as the government is saying unvaccinated people will have to pay for PCR tests to get this (before it was free) and it appears with the Delta variant there is a much higher risk of breakthrough infections.

Personally I think what the UK is doing and giving out rapid antigen tests for free and encouraging people - even those fully vaccinated - to do them often (twice weekly) is a much better way of approaching this, but of course it's expensive and you need to trust people to actually do it.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#65

Post by sennight »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #55
sennight wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and businesses do?

Businesses and people can make their own choices and run their lives how they see fit. That's literally the definition of freedom. The government exists to provide a safe framework to protect property and to provide for the common defense for people to live free and make thier own choices.

So in your world there are no seatbelt laws and people are free to drink raw milk? Must be nice.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#66

Post by kthejoker2 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #18
sennight wrote: post #14

The fact that anyone would think it is the responsibility of employers to force others to do anything... just amazing. You know that there is a system already in place to do that, right? It is even designed to guard against abuses that businesses aren't equipped for: this is a function of government. If you want to force your vision of the world on others - lobby the government, that is what it is there for.

I don't agree that the government exists to social engineer society.

That's not what OP said; they said it's society's job to social engineer government.

Politics is the allocation of scarce resources; so by definition it exhibits preferences in those allocations, whether the whim of a tyrant, an iron law of utility, or a social contract.

Guns versus butter is the toy example from macroeconomics 101, but absolutely government is the net sum of its opportunity costs.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#67

Post by nickthemagicman »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #51
nickthemagicman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you leave quarantine you expose yourself to risk. It's your choice to leave quarantine or not. It's your choice to get a vaccine or not. This is a personal responsibility issue. Not a society wide issue. It's never been anyone's responsibility to wear a bubble suit to protect immuno-compromised people, or stop eating meat because of people with high cholesterol.. and it's not anyone's responsibility to get a vacci…

The societal risk of infecting immuno compromised people with random generic disease is small. Scale matters. Similarly you're not allowed to walk around new york if you're confirmed to be carrying a novel strain of ebola. Permitting individuals to choose to be vaccinated and building owners to choose to forbid vaccinated people seems reasonable to me. Sacrificing individual freedoms for the mutual benefit of the lar…

What's the correct scale though?

To a large number of people.... a survivability of 99.99% is an acceptable risk for people to go out in society freely, like you have with most age groups in Covid.

To some people ONE death is too many because the value of a human life is priceless.

What's the correct, scientifically determined, objective scale of people dying, to allow the government to turn things into a medical fascist state?

My argument is that there is no objectively correct 'scale' because it's not a scientific measure therefore doesn't matter.

It's just the news and government yelling scary death numbers until enough kind-hearted but ignorant people are scared enough to sacrifice their freedoms.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#68

Post by da_big_ghey »

xadhominemx wrote: post #53
mc32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it’s never been required for most types of jobs. And here the labor minister is coming down on the side of employees. And it’s important to note, companies are requiring vaccination status whether you’re hybrid or fully remote. Fully remote offering no exposure risk to the company.

It’s never been required for jobs because historically the most virulent transmissible diseases were spread by children and adolescents. And in Germany of course the Labor Minister is going to push back on anything demanded by any employer - there is no information in his position.

Flu was spread a lot in many workplace where I've been, among adults. No flu shot requirement. Anybody who want a requirement for coronavirus vaccine should had flu shot requirement these past years or at least should make one now.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#69

Post by chadash »

mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

> I hope this gets settled by the labor board or the Supreme Court rather than companies takin that mantle to impose a mandate themselves.

Generally, the default is that private companies can discriminate however they please. In certain cases we've decided that that's not good for a society (race, religion, ethnicity), so we restrict their ability to do that. But why shouldn't private companies be allowed to make their own decisions about things that they perceive (whether they are right or wrong) will improve worker safety? In this case, vaccination status affects other people (in terms of increased risk of transmission + psychological perception), so how is different than my company's current rule that I'm not allowed to smoke at my desk?

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#70

Post by kthejoker2 »

sennight wrote: post #62
minikites wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_att... >Brian Sicknick, a 42-year-old responding Capitol Police officer, was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day, after which he was placed on life support, and soon died. >In the immediate aftermath of the attack, some members of Congress and press reports included these two suicides in the number of reported casualt…

Yeah, so murder by... bullying? Guilt tripping? The shamelessness of the lying is impressive.

We can quibble over what is a "murder", but assigning blame of a suicide due to PTSD on the cause of the trauma is not a new concept.
Post reply on HN