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Stop Death Shaming

theatlantic.com

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Re: Stop Death Shaming

#61

Post by crazy_horse »

cercatrova wrote: post #55
crazy_horse wrote: post #20

Reddit has a subreddit dedicated to this. I understand the justifications and the frustration, but so much of that is people being hateful. I've seen everything from race, hair style, weight, religion, etc mocked because the people deserve it. I think it's the most toxic part of humanity. I hope reddit closes hateful subs like this. Here is a similar article about that sub. https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/herman-…

Can you really blame those commentors? I certainly cannot, and I said so in another comment of mine. Reddit was right to close down actually harmful subs like r/NoNewNormal which was basically vaccine conspiracy peddling. Compared to that, HCA is nothing. It's not causing anything, it's only showing the effects of things like being antivax.

It's full of hatred. I can understand being upset, but being so frustrated that you revel in the deaths of innocent people? These people are victims learning the most painful and lat lesson of their lives. Saying that the trash has been taken out when someone dies (yes, a quote form that article), is lacking humanity.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#62

Post by _rpd »

_3u10 wrote: post #46
siod wrote: post #34

People are angry. They see vaccine refusers as prolonging the pandemic and putting their loved ones/everyone at risk for nothing.

Given that it spreads faster amongst the unvaccinated it’s the vaccines that are prolonging it. The entire flatten the curve narrative is about making it last as long as possible. With deltas R value of 5 to 8 it could be over by Christmas even with vaccines and masks.

"Flattening the curve" is about not overwhleming hospital resources, to avoid non-COVID avoidable deaths spiking.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#63

Post by flaque »

otterley wrote: post #18

Stop telling people to stop doing things. It's very rude. Explain to us why the behavior is bad, instead.

If you shame people, they dig in their heels.

If you care about stopping the pandemic, you need to create an environment in which someone can safely stop believing their falsehoods.

You actually have to convince people, regardless of whether or not they deserve your effort in convincing them.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#64

Post by ogogmad »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #32
ogogmad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Darwin Awards" once had an unnerving degree of pop culture acceptance. [edit] They might still.

IIRC, Darwin Awards were always targeted at singular instances of actions that could be charitably described as unwise. What is happening today is just the use of anything for the advancement of tribal signaling and catharsis derived from the suffering of the "other." It exists on every side, acceptability of these behaviors depends largely on in-group vs out-group status of the perpetrator.

I might be sentimental in thinking that you shouldn't kick someone when they're down. Dying for your mistakes is one way to be "down", and mocking someone is a great way of "kicking" them.

Goes beyond tribalism.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#65

Post by cercatrova »

crazy_horse wrote: post #61
cercatrova wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really blame those commentors? I certainly cannot, and I said so in another comment of mine. Reddit was right to close down actually harmful subs like r/NoNewNormal which was basically vaccine conspiracy peddling. Compared to that, HCA is nothing. It's not causing anything, it's only showing the effects of things like being antivax.

It's full of hatred. I can understand being upset, but being so frustrated that you revel in the deaths of innocent people? These people are victims learning the most painful and lat lesson of their lives. Saying that the trash has been taken out when someone dies (yes, a quote form that article), is lacking humanity.

The death is of their own creation. They literally chose to die, and moreover, they chose to take actions that would harm other people. How could I have sympathy for someone who actively chooses to harm others and succumbs to their own demise?

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#66

Post by crazy_horse »

cercatrova wrote: post #65
crazy_horse wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's full of hatred. I can understand being upset, but being so frustrated that you revel in the deaths of innocent people? These people are victims learning the most painful and lat lesson of their lives. Saying that the trash has been taken out when someone dies (yes, a quote form that article), is lacking humanity.

The death is of their own creation. They literally chose to die, and moreover, they chose to take actions that would harm other people. How could I have sympathy for someone who actively chooses to harm others and succumbs to their own demise?

You don't have to. I think there's a difference between that and chasing down posts on Facebook so you can gloat over their death.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#67

Post by beaconstudios »

WalterSear wrote: post #33
beaconstudios wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not surprising to be honest, reddit is a pretty vitriolic place.

IMHO, this place is more toxic. Sure, there is a much stronger social policing of personal attacks and sophomoric comments, but within those bounds, some people appear to feel freer to make genuinely cutting comments and express vitriolic opinions.

they're the same place (literally, same demographics and that), HN just pushes people to be passive-aggressive instead of regular aggressive because of the rules on tone, even though the spirit of the rules is to be inquisitive rather than abrasive.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#68

Post by mioasndo »

Legion wrote: post #15
eventreduce wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people do not "deserve" bed space because most sickness is selfmade. People smoke, drink and eat too much, so they all deserve to die?

You overeating doesn't give everyone else around you diabetes. I'm never going to buy the attempts to equate getting a personal preventable illness with willful and malicious disregard of the health of everyone surrounding you. We're pretty understanding of a person who struggles with alcoholism. We're a whole lot less understanding when they choose to get behind the wheel.

The covid vaccines do not prevent transmission, and people who are unvaccinated are not intentionally infecting others with covid. Taking the vaccine is also not the same as not driving sober because there are real fatal risks to taking the vaccine. Also, the main risk of death from covid is for people that do have preventable personal illnesses, or serious health issues. The average person dying from covid in the US has 4 comorbidity and only 5% of deaths do not have comorbidity [0].

So, tell me, why should a healthy, young person, who already had covid and went through it no problem, take a vaccine that could literally kill them? Because vaccine passports as introduced in some places will majorly mess up the lives of many people.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Co...

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#69

Post by flaque »

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #58
flaque wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, they’re not reasonable reasons to not get vaccinated. But they are reasonable fears to have. They’re normal fears, that make sense from their point of view. They’re factually wrong, but understandable.

The same can be said of any fear that causes someone to hurt people. The abusive husband has a reasonable fear of being abandoned. The white supremacist has a reasonable fear of losing their jobs to competition. Etc etc Being able to give a casual explanation for the behavior doesn't justify it. At some point people have an obligation to not harm others.

The difference is that it doesn't matter if the behavior is justified.

The only thing that matters is getting them vaccinated. Even if you have to forgive them, even if you have to give them sympathy they don't deserve.

Shaming doesn't work when the half population is unvaccinated. You actually have to convince people, even if they don't deserve the effort.

Because if you don't get them vaccinated, many people will die.

Re: Stop Death Shaming

#70

Post by [deleted] »

yongjik wrote: post #29

IMHO, the most surprising (and disturbing) thing about people refusing the vaccine, catching COVID, and dying is that there are so many of them. Enough for the media to talk about a random new dead person every day. Enough to sustain a shitty subreddit. In a country where vaccination is free. I agree that mocking them isn't productive, but at this stage, it feels more like a coping mechanism. When the world around yo…

[deleted]
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