Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#181

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #158

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

This.

Buying anything on my organization costs something around $10k. Add your price to this to discover the total we are spending.

That's on financial cost. The opportunity cost of stopping technical people to handle the technical details of an acquisition is just huge, and larger the most differentiation there is on the market.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#182

Post by devoutsalsa » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

dharmab wrote: post #146

mongol wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that working? Does wsl2 provide more than a shell?

WSL2 uses a full Linux VM running under HyperV.

WSL2 can get weird when you start trying to install software with low level virtualization and file system features. YMMV. I’d use it to install apps, but I wouldn’t be confident it’d work with Docker. Even if it did initially work, eventually you’ll hit a problem for which there is no googleable answer & good luck with that.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#183

Post by wiredfool » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

solarkraft wrote: post #60

dpratt wrote: post #33

This appears to be cutting of their nose to spite their face. We have a team of 50+ engineers that all use Docker for Mac for daily development tasks, but I suspect that will no longer be true in a rather short amount of time. Frankly, I don’t really know if anybody actually uses the UI components for it outside of starting and stopping the engine and for basic configuration of the VM. Everything else that comes with…

> As soon as there is a viable alternative (and I’d be happy to contribute to the effort), I’ll be moving away from Docker for Mac. I just SSH into my server. The biggest pain about macOS is that it can't easily mount SFTP.

I've been doing development in docker, but unrelated to that I did an upgrade to big sur and borked the machine for a few days.

Pulling the same projects to my (admittedly quite fast) linux box in the cloud is night and day for speed in docker with volume mounts. Browserfy runs 5x faster, at least. Yarn install is 10x faster.

And it's reliable. Docker's filesharing on the mac has about a 25% failure rate that any given save will be properly picked up by watch, with a complete, uncorrupted, updated file.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#184

Post by efsavage » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

Many engineers at large companies won't want to bother dealing with the headaches around licensing software and spending money, whether it's $2/mo or $21/mo or $200/mo.

If it's a core part of my job and the best option available, it'd be worth it, but if there's any reasonable alternative, I'll go download that today instead of wading through all of the lawyers and approvals and compliance to use something slightly better.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#185

Post by WhatsName » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #157

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

The places where I worked there's an inverse relationship - the smaller the cost, the harder it is to justify with finances. ($4000 monthly AWS bill for "testing purposes"? No questions asked. $10 wireless mouse? Mission impossible!)

In case you aren't aware, it's easy to explain by that fact that most finance departments are afraid to question your spendings on grounds of looking incompetent.

So it's less about 10$ and more about: "I understand what a wireless mouse is and it doesn't look mission critical to me."

"No idea what those items on that AWS bill mean, but I'll probably be better off not asking"

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#186

Post by benbristow » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

codyogden wrote: post #46

kcb wrote: post #26

Overall if they want to charge for their product that's fine. I just hate the model of release free or really permissible application, wait for widespread adoption, then tighten clamp. For what it's worth they've lost my business there.

I want to coin it as “embrace, extend, extort.”

Same with Telerik Fiddler recently. Good piece of software for debugging network requests on Windows.

Was free for as long as I've known it existed. Telerik recently bought by 'Progress' (ironic), software re-written in Electron and now charges a subscription to use it.

Glad HTTP Toolkit is now available free for 'hobbyist' tasks - https://httptoolkit.tech/

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#187

Post by merb » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #143

judge2020 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone know how they plan to enforce this? Audits into the IP space connecting to hub.docker.com? Maybe arbitrary device OS detection a la (nmap -O $local_subnet | grep -ci 'Macbook') > 250

They won’t need to. The number of 250+ engineer businesses that would risk running unlicensed software is small.

well it is AND: "AND less than $10 million in revenue"

basically most companies with ~50 people probably has 10 million in revenue (annually). considering wages and buildings and stuff you need for 50 people...

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#188

Post by osdril » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

nklmilojevic wrote: post #107

rcarmo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the Mac, just get Canonical’s Multipass ( http://multipass.run ) and do an apt-get to install Docker into a VM and use VS Code to “remote” to it. It will automatically install the Docker extension inside the Linux VM and you’re set. For Windows, use WSL2 and do the same. Both can mount “local” folders, although the setup is obviously different. You now have a better way to manage containers than ever before.

Doesn't work on M1 chips yet.

It's in "beta" right now but it works quite well (you can find the binary in the dedicated GitHub issue). Under the hood it just uses QEMU which in turn uses Apple's Hypervisor.framework for virtualization

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#189

Post by fmakunbound » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

It’s not at all about the price. Obviously a corporation can afford that. It’s the sheer dread of even starting the procurement process in your average corporation that your average developer must overcome, that is the barrier.

I’d rather investigate an alternative like running it on a VM than deal with that. Actually I’d rather shave my face with some mace in the dark than deal with that.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#190

Post by stuff4ben » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #80

stuff4ben wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, we've divested/spun off the "consultancy" part. And not every part of IBM is bad, there are a ton of great developers and teams that work here, no condolences needed. I quite enjoy doing what I do here. Lots of innovation in multiple areas, but I guess if you have to drink the startup koolaid prevalent here on HN, be my guest.

I'm not at a startup nor drink the koolaid [1]. I am a consultant, so I get to see how the sausage is made across a wide variety of orgs. In my long tenure in tech (20+ years), I have arrived at evangelizing and encouraging engineering first and data driven organizations; in my experience, that provides the best environment for technologists to have autonomy, while pursuing mastery and purpose (which, hopefully, enab…

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