Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

euronews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 267 posts

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#171

Post by randomhodler84 »

elliekelly wrote: post #162
avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

I am absolutely of the opinion that we deserve more privacy when it comes to our transactions. We need and deserve a privacy-oriented payment system but we also need a financial system that is reliable, trustworthy, and most of all, fair. That’s not Bitcoin. I don’t know whether predatory investments and outright scams are simply inevitable with the anonymity cryptocurrency provides. I’d like to think there are some…

What makes you say it doesn’t work?

And, you can’t have privacy and still prevent illicit transactions. Any way that leaks intent is by definition not private.

Bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies work fine, and achieve their goals.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#172

Post by randomhodler84 »

meowkit wrote: post #167
elliekelly wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely of the opinion that we deserve more privacy when it comes to our transactions. We need and deserve a privacy-oriented payment system but we also need a financial system that is reliable, trustworthy, and most of all, fair. That’s not Bitcoin. I don’t know whether predatory investments and outright scams are simply inevitable with the anonymity cryptocurrency provides. I’d like to think there are some…

This is a really cynical and oversimplified take in my opinion. Our centralized financial systems have a lot of regulation for outsiders, but the rules selectively apply to those with power and capital. If the Panama Papers/FinCEN leaks have shown me anything its that our financial systems are not sufficiently policing themselves. Having all transactions on open source ledgers is a good start. With zero knowledge pro…

Slashing is a disincentive, and should be a good reason for distrust. I would not trust a public ledger that can delete my funds.

You can’t have fraud detection and privacy. They are mutually exclusive.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#173

Post by randomhodler84 »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #165
avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

It's because it's an established technology that only attracts speculation and scams because it detaches the creation of capital from the utilization of labor and production and replaces it with hardware. It's a fundamentally "wrong" currency in that you cannot request labor in exchange for debt. Instead you can request labor in exchange for waiting for a machine to generate the value of labor. People say, well that'…

You have bought into the debt argument, and loose money.

I like hard money. Infinity / 21M

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#174

Post by r00fus »

meowkit wrote: post #167
elliekelly wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely of the opinion that we deserve more privacy when it comes to our transactions. We need and deserve a privacy-oriented payment system but we also need a financial system that is reliable, trustworthy, and most of all, fair. That’s not Bitcoin. I don’t know whether predatory investments and outright scams are simply inevitable with the anonymity cryptocurrency provides. I’d like to think there are some…

This is a really cynical and oversimplified take in my opinion. Our centralized financial systems have a lot of regulation for outsiders, but the rules selectively apply to those with power and capital. If the Panama Papers/FinCEN leaks have shown me anything its that our financial systems are not sufficiently policing themselves. Having all transactions on open source ledgers is a good start. With zero knowledge pro…

Bitcoin and the like simply make Panama papers style hidden wealth all the more likely and possible.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#175

Post by shrimp_emoji »

user-the-name wrote: post #107
seriousquestion wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To build on this; Is code equivalent to speech? Is Bitcoin free speech?

Probably not, and no.

You must be joking.

https://www.eff.org/cases/bernstein-v-us-dept-justice?elqTra...

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#176

Post by zarzavat »

snarf21 wrote: post #116
anm89 wrote: post #30

The EU isn't doing anything to bitcoin. They have no ability to regulate bitcoin. They can make it traceable when it is held on kycd exchanges In their jurisdiction. That is a big difference

Serious question: Couldn't they ban ISPs from connecting to known networks? A public blockchain must remain public and they can largely prevent that. They could (not saying they will) ban VPN connections to other countries.

You don't need to connect to a blockchain to make a transaction. You just need to connect to someone who is connected to a blockchain. Big difference.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#177

Post by ethbr0 »

anm89 wrote: post #156
ethbr0 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's going to exchange euro for crypto, if all European banks are prohibited from touching it?

The rest of the world

Unh hunh. Minus the US and China, who also have strong incentives for banning anonymous transactions.

How much of world GDP does that leave?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#178

Post by acdha »

avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

HN tends to have a lot of people who are good at technical analysis and allergic to hyperbolic marketing. By now there's been a decade of Bitcoin proponents endlessly repeating claims which are either untrue or highly aspirational while it continues to very expensively not deliver results.

This brings me to the second part: anyone who does care about privacy is _especially_ not going to recommend use of Bitcoin since a system which requires you to make an irrepudiable public record of your transactions is actually worse than the status quo. Similarly, people will confabulate about it allegedly being “uncensorable” when it's both easy to censor and, being public, extremely risky for anyone concerned about censorship to use.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#179

Post by ethbr0 »

kimixa wrote: post #142
ethbr0 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#4 is "holding currency independent of any central bank's monetary policy." Ironically, that's the strongest long term feature. But probably the one driving the least amount of volume (outside of hyperinflation states).

But the idea of it being a "currency" requires it to have some value outside of it being stored (IE someone wants to buy it). If the only reason for it existing is to show how many you have, it has zero value outside the possible curiosity of "Having the largest number that happens to match this set of arbitrary mathematical restrictions"

Storing value and being freely transferrable is an intrinsic value. That establishes some worth > 0.

What external transaction use does is even out the day to day value changes and decrease volitility (transaction volume >> trading volume).

Without that, you'd see some value placed on it, but a large price moves as trading affects it. Come to think of it, that looks a lot like... hmm.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#180

Post by rad_gruchalski »

sennight wrote: post #92
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not assuming. People have shared that sentiment with me at the beginning of the crypto craze.

The beginning, like when people were commonly introduced to the concept through the whitepaper and a link to the reference client source? And those people thought "public ledger" meant "governments can’t track how I spend my money"? A short time after the USG shuttered a non-fractional, gold reserve backed, paypal-like financial network? Okey dokey.

Well, a little bit later. Usually those were the people getting on bandwagon based on the wrong premise. "Independent from a centrally controlled bank system", "the government cannot track me", "the government cannot take my crypto away" (so they technically cannot but they can definitely block moving it so that it essentially becomes worthless), you name it.

In the hindsight, the central control over crypto may give it a credibility boost. It doesn't really solve the problems of how easy is it to get scammed / lose it but it may swing the usage majority towards legit markets.

I have no idea, really. My initial statement in this thread was an emotion driven one.

Post reply on HN