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EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

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Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#131

Post by burnished »

kobalsky wrote: post #113
burnished wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you elaborate? I'm ignorant. From my perspective it seems like the value of bitcoin changes too much, having risen sharply in value recently, to spend as currency, but I'm also assuming that there are other more stable options. What kind of things do you buy, and how often? What sort of things do you do considering that the value might sky-rocket or dive overnight?

To add to what xtracto said, I live in Argentina and our currency has an annual inflation rate of 50% (it's actually higher, but I'll stick to official numbers). Banks here have a bad history of keeping your foreign currency deposits when things go south and then converting your balance at a government mandated exchange rate, which was a fraction of the real value (think 1/10 of the real value). Now, the government c…

do you use crypto for daily purchases, like going to a corner store or buying groceries, or is it more informal and a way to transfer money between friends? Or is it a store of value and you liquidate some periodically for purchases? Also thank you for educating me, this makes much more sense than anything from my perspective.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#132

Post by cmrdporcupine »

vkou wrote: post #130
elric wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need the ability to regulate bitcoin. They can just treat illegal exchanges as money launderers (or terrorism funders, or whatever else the go-to argument is today) and slap them with hefty fines. Anyone using these exchanges is committing a crime and can be treated accordingly. Anyone caught with large amounts of crypto can be treated as a criminal, the same way people who have large amounts of cash on th…

There's no need to put scare quotes around security. Cryptocurrencies are mostly used for one of three things. 1. Paying ransomware. 2. Buying drugs. 3. Day-trading. That's it. There's no meaningful slice of the pie that goes to #4. Almost all of us can agree that #1 is illegal, many people and countries currently believe that #2 is illegal, and almost all of us can agree that people participating in #3 should probab…

You forgot outright money laundering / tax evasion

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#133

Post by Sevii »

imtringued wrote: post #101
oceanplexian wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments can either get onboard, and come up with a reasonable, practical regulatory environment, or alternatively they will be left behind and Crypto will evolve to circumvent their wishes. It is a shame but the USA may end up leapfrogging the EU in the same way they have done with other innovations, like Social Media, Self Driving Cars, and other cutting edge tech. It turns out regulating entire sectors of the e…

Cutting edge? The only special thing about Bitcoin is the blockchain which only matters when there is a shortage of trust. Bitcoin may force government to be more responsible because it can be used to circumvent capital controls or price controls. Any advantage other than trust that a public blockchain has can be replicated through a private blockchain. It's just software after all. Considering the monetary philosoph…

Considering that trust in government is at an all time low public blockchains provide some much needed openness.

The reason we went off the gold standard is because the US government printed off more money than they had gold and then got caught.

Instead of trying to make up for their crime the government decided to ban ownership of gold.

Cryptocurrency doesn't have a deflationary restriction. If bitcoin is too similar to gold, people will just use some other coin.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#134

Post by vjust »

Reaffirming the fact that Cash is king, as far as traceability is concerned. Unless of course, the FBI is tracking the bill numbers. But for all nefarious activities good old fashioned cash rules. No transaction or 'gas' fees either. If you can handle the physical bulk/inconvenience.

Bitcoin transactions take minutes or even hours to settle sometime, so 'digital speed' is vaporware at this point.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#135

Post by tablespoon »

Animats wrote: post #51

The crypto world is running out of safe havens. China cracked down, and cut the power to large Bitcoin farms. In the US, the SEC and CFTC have been tightening up on crypto-related things that look like securities and things that look like exchanges. Israel kicked out the binary option crowd, which overlapped with the crypto crowd; they seem to have moved to Bulgaria. Now the EU. The bigger countries are in general ti…

> The crypto world is running out of safe havens. China cracked down, and cut the power to large Bitcoin farms. In the US, the SEC and CFTC have been tightening up on crypto-related things that look like securities and things that look like exchanges. Israel kicked out the binary option crowd, which overlapped with the crypto crowd; they seem to have moved to Bulgaria. Now the EU.

Which further proves the idea that cyberspace is independent of actual space is a lie, which renders any idea predicated on that as suspect.

There may be a brief periods where cyberspace is "more free," but it doesn't take long for the real-space authorities to notice and assert control (often in a way that's more complete than could ever be achieved in real-space).

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#136

Post by cryptica »

EU regulations are all over the place. There is no cohesive moral thread behind any of them.

Firstly, they introduced GDPR regulations to prevent companies and organizations from collecting data on citizens... But now they introduce regulations to force companies and organizations to collect data on citizens. It's ridiculous.

It's frightening that the government could possibly win a case in a court of law with such fundamentally flawed logic. What would the verdict be like? "Collecting data on people is illegal, but it's also illegal to not collect data, therefore you are guilty!"

That must be how totalitarianism comes about; make sure everyone is guilty of something, then you can arrest all your political opponents on any pretext you like.

What is the point of the law if it contradicts itself? We may as well go back to living in caves.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#137

Post by ethbr0 »

vkou wrote: post #130
elric wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need the ability to regulate bitcoin. They can just treat illegal exchanges as money launderers (or terrorism funders, or whatever else the go-to argument is today) and slap them with hefty fines. Anyone using these exchanges is committing a crime and can be treated accordingly. Anyone caught with large amounts of crypto can be treated as a criminal, the same way people who have large amounts of cash on th…

There's no need to put scare quotes around security. Cryptocurrencies are mostly used for one of three things. 1. Paying ransomware. 2. Buying drugs. 3. Day-trading. That's it. There's no meaningful slice of the pie that goes to #4. Almost all of us can agree that #1 is illegal, many people and countries currently believe that #2 is illegal, and almost all of us can agree that people participating in #3 should probab…

#4 is "holding currency independent of any central bank's monetary policy."

Ironically, that's the strongest long term feature. But probably the one driving the least amount of volume (outside of hyperinflation states).

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#138

Post by dale_glass »

acdha wrote: post #126
dale_glass wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not really. BTC was sort of usable as a currency to a point. You could even buy games on Steam with it. But it had a 1MB block size limit, which was initially implemented to prevent spam. This was obstinately kept in place, and that quickly destroyed its usefulness as a currency -- since now there's a lot of contention, transacting is slow and expensive. This doesn't bother the people who want an asset to buy o…

It was technically possible but nobody seriously did it because the transactions were very slow and fees were massive compared to everything else, not to mention that the deflationary design meant that anyone who did would be mocked for not having held on until the value went up. Remember all of those comments about people buying a pizza with what a few years later would have been thousands of dollars? That sealed it…

Fees were tiny before it hit the block limit. If you look at the stats before the blocks started filling up, the average fee was around 5 cents USD. Massive fees only started once the blocks started filling up.

And yup, the deflationary model certainly favors not using it as a currency.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#139

Post by ethbr0 »

anm89 wrote: post #87
Daishiman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the same ability to regulate it as they do cash transactions. Which is to say, people will still find workarounds if they really want to take a shot at it, but forget about transacting with legit companies and institutions unless you want the spotlight shone on you.

The EU prints Euros. The EU does not in any direct way control production of bitcoin. Custody of the two assets has bordering on nothing in common. Exchange of the who assets has bordering on nothing in common. Conflating them is wildly innacurate.

Who's going to exchange euro for crypto, if all European banks are prohibited from touching it?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#140

Post by Thiez »

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #115
pavlov wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Or the EU regulate exchanges to the point you can't transfer your Bitcoin to a wallet you own?” Why not? The EU regulates banks to the point that you can’t transfer money to an account in North Korea. It’s not obvious why Bitcoin exchanges should be regulated differently (as you can’t prove the random Bitcoin address isn’t controlled by NK).

Not allowing individuals autonomy over how they choose to spend their own money sounds authoritarian.

You live in a country where everything is legal to buy and sell, then?
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