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EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

euronews.com

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Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#161

Post by xtracto »

xtracto wrote: post #106
burnished wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you elaborate? I'm ignorant. From my perspective it seems like the value of bitcoin changes too much, having risen sharply in value recently, to spend as currency, but I'm also assuming that there are other more stable options. What kind of things do you buy, and how often? What sort of things do you do considering that the value might sky-rocket or dive overnight?

> I'm ignorant. From my perspective it seems like the value of bitcoin changes too much, The value of Bitcoin fluctuates UP and DOWN too much *when compared to the US Dollar*. But compared say, to the Mexican Peso or say (more extremely) Venezuelan Peso, it has gone steadily up. So for us who don't live in a place with a sufficiently stable central bank and a trustful government, Cryptocurrencies are one avenue to sa…

Shame on me... "Venezuelan Peso" is Bolivar. That was pretty ignorant haha.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#162

Post by elliekelly »

avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

I am absolutely of the opinion that we deserve more privacy when it comes to our transactions. We need and deserve a privacy-oriented payment system but we also need a financial system that is reliable, trustworthy, and most of all, fair. That’s not Bitcoin.

I don’t know whether predatory investments and outright scams are simply inevitable with the anonymity cryptocurrency provides. I’d like to think there are some perfectly valid and net-beneficial use cases. But it seems pretty clear that crypto, in its current iteration, is exploitative at best and the only real use case beyond pyramid schemes is facilitating criminal activity.

It was a cool experiment. We tried it. It doesn’t work. A lot of people have learned (and some are still yet to learn) the hard way why our financial systems are so heavily regulated. But if we’re looking for increased privacy (and we should be!) we need to start looking beyond Bitcoin.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#163

Post by cryptica »

mikem170 wrote: post #160
cryptica wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come to realize that the current fiat scheme and the crypto scheme are both unethical in their own way. But it makes me sick to hear people talk about banning crypto without at least suggesting to dramatically reform the fiat system. Crypto would not have existed in the first place if most people felt that the fiat system was fair. People who don't acknowledge this at this stage are either totally blind or total…

I was just thinking this. The more control that governments try to exert over their populations the more of a reaction there will be to avoid these controls. One might assume the more they regulate bitcoin that more difficult to regulate alternatives will become more popular.

Makes sense. People will always come up with some new innovative ways to get around regulations which harm them. Those new ways will never cease to defy our imaginations. Who could have imagined Bitcoin 20 years ago? The regulators are playing whack-a-mole.

Problems must be fixed at the root instead of endlessly trying to patch the symptoms. Most software developers are familiar with what happens when you try to fix bugs quickly with hacks instead of first trying to identify the root cause.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#164

Post by quickthrowman »

mech422 wrote: post #19
frankbreetz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

El Salvador is trying to use it a currency. Well, I still wouldn't consider it a currency since pretty much everything will be priced in dollars, but they are using to transfer value. One of the man reasons for this was to send home remittances. Many people still believe Bitcoin could at least be used to transfer value, like a currency. AMC, Starbucks, and United Wholesale Mortgage are all looking into accepting it.…

Bitcoin is generally considered a 'store of value' rather then a day to day 'currency'... Sorta like a savings bond vs a credit card And a few years back, before the transaction fees got so high - there were a few places that took it. NewEgg comes to mind.

BTC is not like a bond at all. A bond is a collection of future cash flows (coupon payments) and a principle payment at the end (or for savings bonds/t-bills, you are buying one future payment for a discount).

BTC has no intrinsic value or cash flows or earnings or assets or..

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#165

Post by andrewmcwatters »

avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

It's because it's an established technology that only attracts speculation and scams because it detaches the creation of capital from the utilization of labor and production and replaces it with hardware.

It's a fundamentally "wrong" currency in that you cannot request labor in exchange for debt. Instead you can request labor in exchange for waiting for a machine to generate the value of labor.

People say, well that's great, because no one wants debt. Except you do. You do want debt to exist in the world, because you want people to have an incentive to make things and do things versus not making things and doing things.

It makes no sense. It's mass appeal is driven by the fact that one person exchanges fiat to another person in exchange for the currency itself in larger price to fiat over time.

I think it's actually somewhat sustainable nonsense too, because people really think you can dollar cost average it. And if you have it and need to actually buy something with it, you are only incentivized to ask for more fiat in exchange for it, because people will buy it for strange reasons like simple moving average.

It's not a good currency, because it's not price stable, and it's not a good investment, since there's no underlying or relational value associated with it. So what is it?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#166

Post by SkyMarshal »

By “ban anonymous crypto wallets”, this article is referring to commercial custodians that offer wallet services to customers.

But it doesn’t say anything about whether the ban will apply to FOSS crypto wallets people can download and run on their personal computers.

As long as the latter remains protected by free speech laws, similar to cryptography code, and commercial custodial wallets are affected, then this is a reasonable compromise not a huge problem imho.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#167

Post by meowkit »

elliekelly wrote: post #162
avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

I am absolutely of the opinion that we deserve more privacy when it comes to our transactions. We need and deserve a privacy-oriented payment system but we also need a financial system that is reliable, trustworthy, and most of all, fair. That’s not Bitcoin. I don’t know whether predatory investments and outright scams are simply inevitable with the anonymity cryptocurrency provides. I’d like to think there are some…

This is a really cynical and oversimplified take in my opinion.

Our centralized financial systems have a lot of regulation for outsiders, but the rules selectively apply to those with power and capital. If the Panama Papers/FinCEN leaks have shown me anything its that our financial systems are not sufficiently policing themselves.

Having all transactions on open source ledgers is a good start. With zero knowledge proofs I’m fairly confident we can design auxiliary systems that can obfuscate senders/receivers/amounts while also allowing for fraud detection by the community as a whole - with slashing style incentives we won’t have to worry as much about regulatory capture and similar things.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#168

Post by unemphysbro »

reidjs wrote: post #50
rootusrootus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have a particular advantage over something like Venmo or Zelle? At least in the US?

I think Venmo has a limit on how much you can transfer in a day

That was the reason, both cases the bikes were $7&9k and I had some surplus crypto :).

Both sellers were happy accepting crypto. Otherwise, I stick to the traditional cash-in-hand.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#170

Post by glitchc »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #165
avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

It's because it's an established technology that only attracts speculation and scams because it detaches the creation of capital from the utilization of labor and production and replaces it with hardware. It's a fundamentally "wrong" currency in that you cannot request labor in exchange for debt. Instead you can request labor in exchange for waiting for a machine to generate the value of labor. People say, well that'…

It seems like this comment appears in every Bitcoin post. I get a deja vu feeling when I read it.

To the OP, is this copy-pasted to every new BTC post? Truly curious.

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