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The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

economist.com

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Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#101

Post by AbortedLaunch »

bertil wrote: post #90
daavidhauser wrote: post #4

why does the world need a proper investigation into that? Sometimes it seems to me that it’s just because we want someone to blame. Not because it would actually help anyone.

I’m not a biologist but as I understand, viruses very rarely go from being common in one species to another. It has to do with mutation and how you want many hosts with high viral load to stumble on an effective change. There are cases where someone close to animals might get it, a farmer typically, but it rarely becomes transmissible between humans — not unless it mutated first and for that it would need to be endem…

But cross species transmission is known for quite a lot of pathogens. Ebola is a recent example. Asserting it is so unlikely as to be dismissed out of hand doesn’t match knowledge in the field.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#102

Post by blitzar »

aww_dang wrote: post #87
blitzar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your concern is that COVID is fake and it is a jewish conspiracy to inject dangerous vaccines with 5G mind control chips and you want me to take it seriously; then politely go fuck yourself. If you have other concerns, happy to hear them, I never suggested anything to the contrary, you read what you wanted to read in my comment, and perhaps touched a raw nerve as it overlaps with your beliefs.

I've observed this frequently on this site and elsewhere. Dissent is pejoratively associated with flat-earth, antisemitism and other nonsense. As a mainstream narrative, it is an effective way to shut down the discussion. Perhaps some might even call that a disinformation conspiracy.

I am not sure which is the cause and effect, brain control 5G chips were the work of Bill Gates (who as far as I know is not of the Jewish faith) and are outlandish enough. As if to 'prove' these claims are possible and indeed real, gravitas is added to the claim by saying it was in conjunction with the Rothschilds and the Soros Foundation. It did not require me to associate an entire religion with the 'theory', it's in the theory itself, as a cornerstone of supposed proof.

The conversation gets shut down at the retarded assertion that a fake virus was invented in order to inject the population of the world with a brain control device operating, very specifically, on the 5G spectrum.

The phenomenon you are really observing is that stupid people are pejoratively associated with stupid people, especially when they cobble together stupid broad statements like 'all the astronauts and satellites are paid off by the deep state to perpetuate the lie that the earth is round' or 'just ask any Jew and they will confirm they were all told not to go to New York on 9/11'.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#103

Post by sullyj3 »

ghyiihdruh wrote: post #58

No, it doesn't. It will only fuel anti-science sentiment all over the world and put scientists under scrutiny and attacks. We need more science, not more science attacks. It will also vindicate Trump like anti-scientists just when we need more science to tackle climate change, inequality, gender gap, and yes, search for viruses with pandemic risk due to human encroachment on wild life so we can be ready for them. Any…

I hate to be be the one to tell you this, (just kidding, I get a little sadistic thrill out of it) but if you think the best way to defend science is to shy away from searching for truth, you may possibly have missed the entire point of the enterprise.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#104

Post by lottin »

switch007 wrote: post #93
lottin wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If wages doubled in the UK/EU everything made in the UK/EU would instantly also become more expensive.

If wages were halved would everything instantly halve in price?

No, I don't think, because wages aren't the only production cost.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#105

Post by syshum »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #51
syshum wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>would actually like to know exactly why I had to stay locked in my house for a couple of months while nice military men were out on the streets with big guns. Well even if it was a lab leak. A response to a pandemic with totalitarian lock down using the military is something you need to address with your government That is NOT a proper response to a illness for any nation claiming to value individual rights and ind…

What would be a proper response? ;)

Just about anything short of that?

First and foremost I am opposed to any use of the military on the citizens of their own nation. That in itself IMO should be considered off limits. A nations military has the primary purpose to eliminate or destroy the nations enemies, if the military is being used on the citizens that means the citizens have become the enemy...

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#106

Post by luckylion »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #100
luckylion wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would we make sure another Covid couldn't happen if we knew that this one stems from a lab and was intentionally released? Do we ban the creation and release of highly contagious bio-weapons? We already have, haven't we? Do we start a nuclear war to make sure China is no more and therefore they can't do it again (but anyone else could)? I'm not suggesting there's no use in finding out how it came to be, but unles…

> How would we make sure another Covid couldn't happen I don't know, I'm not an expert. But clearly, having more information is strictly better than not having it. So let me flip the question around and ask why should we not investigate?

Potentially for the same reason you'll usually have far-reaching amnesties after civil wars etc, if you want freedom going forward.

Doing an investigation to find "the real truth", which from what I gather in most threads here would be essentially "where did it come from and why was it the Wuhan lab that intentionally released it?", wouldn't really get us anywhere.

None of the large powers would cooperate if they felt threatened and there's nothing to win unless we believe that we automatically get a perfect cure if only we find the GPS coordinates where patient zero got infected. Would it? I don't think so.

I also believe that there's nothing we can do to stop another similar event by knowing where it came from. What's more relevant is how it spread so quickly around the globe, and as far as I understand, we have a pretty good understanding of that and it's mainly international air-plane travel. I don't think we'll see a lasting change in that regard, but maybe we will, and we will have fever-checks before boarding planes or non-regional trains.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#107

Post by syshum »

blitzar wrote: post #56
syshum wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual researchers do not make this claim. That is just another example of senesaional propaganda wrapped in a vener of journalism Their is a high probability it is a false positive as the gnome is very similar to mother infection

Then they ran tests on samples taken between January 2018 and December 2019 and found the presence of the virus genome in one of them, collected on March 12, 2019. “The levels of SARS-CoV-2 were low but were positive,” research leader Albert Bosch was quoted as saying by the university. quote must have been taken out of context for propaganda purposes

From comments, and look at the actual study [1]

I have 4 Points

1. No additional verification has been found since, leading to the probability that it was a false positive

2. The researches final paper and subsequent research only talks about finding indicators after Jan 2020

3. The original March 2019 only had 2 of 5 indicators, and seemed to be a data anomaly we should not be writing sensationalist news stories on data anomalies

4. No other samples from 2019 seem to have the same abnormal results... Given what we know about COVID it is unlikely that is appeared in March 2019, then disappeared only to reappear again in Jan 2020...

Covid-19 Started in Wuhan, I know you desperately want to believe it did not start in China, likely do not your political basis but there is literately zero evidence to claim it did not start in China

[1]https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v...

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#108

Post by _y5hn »

ramblerman wrote: post #55
underwater wrote: post #30

If you want to chase a conspiracy that actually matters, go find out who is pushing the narrative that COVID is fake and vaccines are dangerous. That conspiracy is literally killing thousands of people.

Why not both? Two things can matter at the same time. If covid did leak from a lab, accidentally, but there was a cover up, that's also worth exploring no? It feels like you are choosing because of political motivations.

Both would be best.

Swindlers and liars need to be exposed, and held outside of politics. It's not ok to stand in front of hundreds of millions of people and lie right in their faces. We've seen how such mental assaults ended before.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#109

Post by read_if_gay_ »

luckylion wrote: post #106
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would we make sure another Covid couldn't happen I don't know, I'm not an expert. But clearly, having more information is strictly better than not having it. So let me flip the question around and ask why should we not investigate?

Potentially for the same reason you'll usually have far-reaching amnesties after civil wars etc, if you want freedom going forward. Doing an investigation to find "the real truth", which from what I gather in most threads here would be essentially "where did it come from and why was it the Wuhan lab that intentionally released it?", wouldn't really get us anywhere. None of the large powers would cooperate if they fel…

> Doing an investigation to find "the real truth", which from what I gather in most threads here would be essentially "where did it come from and why was it the Wuhan lab that intentionally released it?", wouldn't really get us anywhere.

We shouldn't be conflating the result from a professional investigation with the prevalent popular opinion.

> I also believe that there's nothing we can do to stop another similar event by knowing where it came from.

Your viewpoint kind of hinges on this point and you haven't really supported it yet besides making the assertion. Why would we gain absolutely nothing from having more information about its origin, with respect to either dealing with current or future COVIDs? That conclusion seems very nonobvious to me.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#110

Post by eurasiantiger »

switch007 wrote: post #92
eurasiantiger wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can double your wage, but you first need to buy made in EU and stop buying cheap crap you don’t actually need.

Ok we’re obviously making stupid black and white arguments. But it’s patently true in many companies there is plenty of profit to be reduced and redistributed as wages (also exec comp)

You know you can’t have both that and stonks, right?
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