Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

First town in America to ban new gas stations

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 124 posts

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#101

Post by elif »

Lendal wrote: post #34
nimbius wrote: post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

Don't worry. Most of the Tesla superchargers in my area are located on the back side of gas stations. Pumps in the front, store in the middle, chargers in the back. I believe in 10 years they will be building gas stations with the chargers in the front, store in the middle, pumps in the back. EV drivers have even more need for someplace to hang out/browse for 10-20 minutes or so. Not everyone wants to sit in their ca…

Yes let me go breath air with strangers instead of watching netflix in the AC in a chair optimized for long durations

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#102

Post by emodendroket »

elif wrote: post #100
emodendroket wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really see why you couldn't have chargers attached to a convenience store or restaurant. It would seem to make a lot of sense.

Superchargers are almost always next to a restaurant. I've never seen one near a convenience store.

In a world where electric cars were the most common means of transportation wouldn't there be a need for chargers about as widespread as gas stations now? I am having a hard time seeing why it wouldn't take a similar form. Perhaps there would be somewhat fewer because you can fit some in restaurants, stores, and other places, but I don't really imagine them eliminating the category.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#103

Post by rinron »

As good as it is to see them encouraging the move to ev's. I wonder if it might be a bit premature when 47% of California's power is from natural gas (solar is 2nd at 14%), they import approximately 32% of their total power and they sometimes have rolling blackouts.

The ban would be great news to the existing gas stations as well would be interesting to know how busy they currently are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#104

Post by bobthepanda »

CivBase wrote: post #69
bobthepanda wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stations have known environmental impacts. The storage tanks are an environmental hazard that makes redevelopment extremely expensive. The operation of the gas pump itself pollutes the air with toxic fumes, to the point where CA already bans their installation 300 ft from sensitive uses (e.g. schools and playgrounds) and even that may not be sufficient to actually prevent health hazards. While for now they are a…

> The operation of the gas pump itself pollutes the air with toxic fumes, to the point where CA already bans their installation 300 ft from sensitive uses (e.g. schools and playgrounds) and even that may not be sufficient to actually prevent health hazards. That's another result of fuel consumption, not the construction of new gas stations. The toxic fumes aren't reduced because a driver goes an extra couple minutes…

They are reduced in the immediate local area, though. Which is something one can certainly optimize for.

Local road emissions are linked to poor health conditions like asthma.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#105

Post by bobthepanda »

moate wrote: post #66
imtringued wrote: post #37

I don't understand. There has been a gas shortage and waiting lines since the pandemic. Why would you go and outright ban gas stations? If we want less CO2 emissions we have to raise or introduce CO2 prices.

Just walk me through this: Did the gas stations all catch Covid and die? What is the correlation between pandemic related gas shortages and a need for more fuel pumps (vs. more of the fuel to be delivered to the pumps because of pandemic related supply chain issues)? Also, where are these constant waiting lines currently happening? I'm personally in NJ, an extremely densely populated state, and haven't seen anything…

I believe they're talking about the Colonial pipeline hack, where there were indeed waiting lines for gas in the South, but that was because of lack of delivery of gas, not lack of gas stations. A gas station is no use if it can't get gas.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#106

Post by bradlys »

after_care wrote: post #14
kiba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). Is this really a sacrifice? I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. I would be more…

I live in a suburb of a medium sized city. It’s not particularly dense, probably slightly lower density than the median American lives in. My generation Z neighbors (I have two) are very happy to live without a car. They live within three miles of their jobs and use electric scooters for commuting. They have their food and consumer goods shipped to their house. They say that they don’t need to drive anywhere, and the…

Where are you living? Sounds like you and your neighbors are shut ins who just stream twitch all night. That’s fine but I wouldn’t consider that the norm for gen z or even millennials. (Even if it is popular)

If you go out a few times a week, not having a car in most American cities is quite difficult/burdensome/expensive. Uber alone would be $100 round trip if I wanted to go into the city from where I live. Public transit? Isn’t available past 11pm.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#107

Post by bradlys »

emodendroket wrote: post #29
captainredbeard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this really a sacrifice? For many people, yes. > Bigger house means more maintenance, and bigger lot means more mowing. I for one, hate mowing. No one is forcing you to buy a big home with a maintenance burden. Out of respect, don't force other people into buying smaller ones.

That's really sidestepping the issue, isn't it? It's not just about respect and freedom. It's about the externalities created by many people living in large homes.

The externalities don’t come from living in large homes. They come from the use of non-renewable resources. Focus on that dude. Stop trying to make everyone live in an SRO.

You can easily give everyone a McMansion and live in some sub 1.5C utopia as long as we focus on where we get our energy and resources from. Stop focusing on consumption quantity because it just sounds like envy.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#108

Post by globular-toast »

josephcsible wrote: post #82
globular-toast wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but like most advances in efficiency, it's not used to take less, it's used to take more. Heat pumps could be used in combination with good insulation and good practices to keep houses more comfortable. A few degrees warmer in the winter, a few degrees cooler in the summer. But that's not what happens. Americans use air conditioning to keep their houses cold . People who aren't used to it end up wearing jumpers…

Stuff like telling people that stopping global warming means they need to be uncomfortably hot all summer and uncomfortably cold all winter is why so many people don't care about stopping it. Our goal for this should be to get heat pumps and renewable electricity rolled out everywhere, and then let people keep their houses at whatever temperatures they want without contributing to global warming.

But that's not possible. We are nowhere near being able to sustain that. Nowhere near. Reducing our consumption is possible right now.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#109

Post by ryandrake »

Glench wrote: post #88
emodendroket wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great if you were right. But even assuming it's the case, people will have to adjust to the electrical appliances. People in this very community say that they simply cannot learn to cook on an electric stove, or rent a car for the infrequent occasions when they want to travel hundreds of miles, and therefore fossil fuel usage must be continued unabated. Even this level of very small sacrifice is unimagina…

> Even this level of very small sacrifice is unimaginable. Unimaginable to who? I can easily imagine this. The negatives you list are real, but they'll get rapidly better in the next 20 years (longer range cars, more charging stations for example). But in focusing on the negatives you (and the people you say you're speaking for) forget the positives: - Electric cars already have the lowest cost of ownership of any ca…

We're talking about people unwilling to do so much as wear a small piece of cloth on their face during a global pandemic. You think they can be counted on to make these actual costly sacrifices to help combat climate change? I think that's very optimistic!

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#110

Post by londons_explore »

CivBase wrote: post #62
londons_explore wrote: post #28

Who would invest in a new gas station today? You're going to spend $1M+ on all the buildings, pumps, tanks, etc. And the population of gas cars in the road is slowly decreasing today, and expected to rapidly decrease in the future. Will you really get a good return in your investment when profits on selling gas are very slim, and the risks of EPA regulations giving you huge fines for gas leaks and soil decontaminatio…

It will be several decades before the vast majority of vehicles on the road are EVs. Even if all new vehicles sold were EVs starting tomorrow, the cars currently out there would account for the majority of road vehicles for at least another decade-and-a-half. There's plenty of time to recoup investment on a gas station. Besides, most money for a "gas station" is made from the convenience store. Like you said, gas pro…

But if there are already enough gas stations to service all gas cars, then building another when the number of gas cars isn't going up makes little business sense.

I'd understand it in a town with regular queues at gas stations. But there aren't many of those left today.

Post reply on HN