Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

First town in America to ban new gas stations

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 124 posts

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#31

Post by josephcsible »

dghughes wrote: post #13
FridayoLeary wrote: post #9

Electric cars are expensive. You need to have money to buy one. By punishing petrol car owners, you are essentially rewarding rich people for having money.

And can people even charge a electric vehicle at a public charger if they don't have a credit card or a smartphone or both?

Most level 2 public chargers are free. For level 3 chargers, it depends on the car and the network. For example, with Tesla Superchargers, you just plug the car into one, and the charging bill gets sent to the car's owner automatically. On other charging networks, you often do need a card or phone, but the plug-and-charge standard should take care of that once it rolls out.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#32

Post by teeray »

nivenkos wrote: post #2

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. The US has become accustomed to unparallele…

> The US has become accustomed to unparalleled comfort and luxury, with central air conditioning…

Heat pumps are probably the most efficient way we have to both cool AND heat a house. This is especially true when combined with solar panels and smart thermostats.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#33

Post by nivenkos »

myself248 wrote: post #15
dmitriid wrote: post #4

I drove a fully electric car over the weekend within 100 kilometres of Stockholm. No. The tide is not turning. The vast majority of charging stations are inside the city. And the vast majority of places in those stations a slow, 3kW ones, with a sprinkle of 11kW in between. There are maybe ten 50kW ones in the entire Stockholm area. If the only thing you do is commuting, and you have a place to charge your car overni…

The old saw has been "then you take the train", which only works for folks who are comfortable on trains, and whose type of travel fits with train schedules. I like having my own car, and I like roadtrips without schedules. For me, an EV needs about 8 miles of range for commuting, and about 1000 for vacation, and it's just silly to own 992 extra miles of battery the other 355 days a year. Which is to say, I think we'…

But you write as though that privilege is an inalienable right?

No-one is going to confiscate all gasoline vehicles, but they need to pay for the externalities in air pollution, CO2 emissions and noise pollution, etc.

If the US paid $6+ a gallon like most of Europe does, I think the tide would change pretty soon.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#34

Post by Lendal »

nimbius wrote: post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

Don't worry. Most of the Tesla superchargers in my area are located on the back side of gas stations. Pumps in the front, store in the middle, chargers in the back.

I believe in 10 years they will be building gas stations with the chargers in the front, store in the middle, pumps in the back.

EV drivers have even more need for someplace to hang out/browse for 10-20 minutes or so. Not everyone wants to sit in their car while charging.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#35

Post by captainredbeard »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #20
dghughes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And can people even charge a electric vehicle at a public charger if they don't have a credit card or a smartphone or both?

Who doesn't?

A growing set of conscientious objectors.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#36

Post by ravenstine »

emodendroket wrote: post #27
nimbius wrote: post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

I frankly have become very suspicious of arguments that go "poor people who are not me also happen to like this thing I like, so any attempt to curtail it is discriminatory." Is there something about a gas pump that makes poor people more likely to congregate than a similar facility without? An electric charging station, for instance, would presumably be similar and might even be more likely to have places where you…

Probably that people getting out of their cars is an easy opportunity to ask for cash. Happens all the time to me in LA. It isn't a good reason to keep gas stations arpund, though. (however, i do think there aren't many good reasons besides if America actually embraced clean energy)

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#38

Post by captainredbeard »

emodendroket wrote: post #29
captainredbeard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this really a sacrifice? For many people, yes. > Bigger house means more maintenance, and bigger lot means more mowing. I for one, hate mowing. No one is forcing you to buy a big home with a maintenance burden. Out of respect, don't force other people into buying smaller ones.

That's really sidestepping the issue, isn't it? It's not just about respect and freedom. It's about the externalities created by many people living in large homes.

Maybe

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#40

Post by CivBase »

What does this accomplish? A quick search on Google Maps shows this city (Petaluma, CA) already has at least 18 gas stations. Gas stations don't cause people to consume more gas - they are built because people are already consuming the gas. People will certainly just travel a little bit further for their fuel. Nobody is going to buy a new EV because of this.

Even for the few people looking to buy a new vehicle there are few "affordable" EVs on the market, the ones which are available are relatively expensive, and plenty of other reasons to consider gas-powered alternatives. Charging is still relatively slow and charge stations are relatively hard to come by compared to gas. The batteries are also still incredibly expensive to repair or replace - in some cases seemingly by design.

I really don't understand this. If you want to stop automotive gas consumption, you need to stop people from buying gas-powered vehicles, not stop them from building gas stations.

Post reply on HN