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First town in America to ban new gas stations

theguardian.com

21–30 of 124 posts

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ojai bans "fast food" though the definition of that is a bit slippery - and so there are fast food places just outside city limits.

Cupertino, CA is like this too.

Santa Cruz, CA—no new "big box" national retail chains allowed since the early 2000s (or maybe even 90s, I forgot). So they're all in Capitola, 5 miles away, creating incredible traffic on Highway 1.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#22
post #2

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. The US has become accustomed to unparallele…

American houses are absolute shite. Americans think they have nice houses because Americans are the least-informed people history has ever known.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#23

Electric cars are expensive. You need to have money to buy one. By punishing petrol car owners, you are essentially rewarding rich people for having money.

The "punishment" is what here? Only the same amount of gas stations?

As for expense, the total cost of ownership for electric vehicles is often less than equivalent gas vehicles, even if the purchase price is slightly higher.

When a car is paid for by a loan, this lower total cost of ownership is directly realized in the monthly payment. If a person is paying up front with cash on a car, they are making their own value judgement about the time value of money, and can choose to finance whatever portion the prefer in order to realize this lower TCO.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#24
post #8
post #2

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. The US has become accustomed to unparallele…

> We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). This statement is tinged with the idea of sacrifice and loss that is unfortunately one of the hallmarks of the environmental movement. How about this? We can have an emissions-free future that is much more awesome than now with the same size cars and homes. Rewiring America…

It would be great if you were right. But even assuming it's the case, people will have to adjust to the electrical appliances. People in this very community say that they simply cannot learn to cook on an electric stove, or rent a car for the infrequent occasions when they want to travel hundreds of miles, and therefore fossil fuel usage must be continued unabated. Even this level of very small sacrifice is unimaginable. Never mind the kind of more radical change the person you're replying to is talking about.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And can people even charge a electric vehicle at a public charger if they don't have a credit card or a smartphone or both?

Who doesn't?

There's a good chunk of lower income people who are unbanked and don't have smart phones.

However they typically live where they can get by without a car, as even a cheap car requires unexpected $700 repairs and can not be relied upon.

A lot of the car-dependent design of most of the US is to try to keep people like that out of neighborhoods.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#26
post #5
post #2

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. The US has become accustomed to unparallele…

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). Is this really a sacrifice? I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. I would be more…

> Is this really a sacrifice?

For many people, yes.

> Bigger house means more maintenance, and bigger lot means more mowing. I for one, hate mowing.

No one is forcing you to buy a big home with a maintenance burden. Out of respect, don't force other people into buying smaller ones.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#27
post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

I frankly have become very suspicious of arguments that go "poor people who are not me also happen to like this thing I like, so any attempt to curtail it is discriminatory." Is there something about a gas pump that makes poor people more likely to congregate than a similar facility without? An electric charging station, for instance, would presumably be similar and might even be more likely to have places where you can hang out since it takes longer.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#28
Who would invest in a new gas station today?

You're going to spend $1M+ on all the buildings, pumps, tanks, etc. And the population of gas cars in the road is slowly decreasing today, and expected to rapidly decrease in the future. Will you really get a good return in your investment when profits on selling gas are very slim, and the risks of EPA regulations giving you huge fines for gas leaks and soil decontamination costs are so large.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#29
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). Is this really a sacrifice? I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. I would be more…

> Is this really a sacrifice? For many people, yes. > Bigger house means more maintenance, and bigger lot means more mowing. I for one, hate mowing. No one is forcing you to buy a big home with a maintenance burden. Out of respect, don't force other people into buying smaller ones.

That's really sidestepping the issue, isn't it? It's not just about respect and freedom. It's about the externalities created by many people living in large homes.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#30
post #22
post #2

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. The US has become accustomed to unparallele…

American houses are absolute shite. Americans think they have nice houses because Americans are the least-informed people history has ever known.

> American houses are absolute shite

The general level of craftsmanship is lackluster, agreed.

> Americans are the least-informed people history has ever known

Both this and your prior statement are reflections regarding the diversity of the United States: we have a lot of good stuff and a lot of bad stuff. You can find either in abundance and pretend it's the only option, or you can look at it and see a nuanced perspective.

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