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After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

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Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#81

So they're still retaining the ability to look on users devices? I have nothing against them looking at the abuse material, I have a problem with them having power over my device, which could be piggy-backed on by state actors (or others) for their own purposes later. Nobody is against them trying to prevent child sexual abuse, pretty sure we all agree that fighting that is important, but doing so by creating what is…

Don’t use iCloud photos

You need to read what they are doing. It's on-device scanning. You have no privacy or choice. May as well have a Facebook Phone.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. Apple even says it themselves[1]: > This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time. [1] https://www.apple.com/…

I can't wait until /child-safety 404s or redirects to /safety and there's a wall of marketing blurb (possibly only in Chinese at first) that explains how 'national security' concerns are reported to the CCP. This has totally pushed me over the edge, though I'll admit I was oblivious to begin with. My plan is to replace the MacBooks with a Thinkpad P15 gen 2 running Ubuntu and replace the iPhone with something running…

That’s a smart plan. Apple didn’t misunderstand the criticism, they just have ulterior motives. It’s the only rational explanation.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#83

Trust lost last week. This doesn’t matter.

Of course it matters- if Apple does a 180º reversal I'll applaud and buy more Apple products. I want companies to be able to acknowledge mistakes unequivocally and fix them.

If Apple says "we heard the backlash, we're sorry, we'll never do it again", I'll be more of a supporter than I had been before.

Until they do, trust lost.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t use iCloud photos

Don’t use Apple products. The scanning is on device.

...if you use iCloud Photos.

How is it day 47 of HN arguing about this and you all still can’t get basic facts right, and oh boy, you showed me downvoting me twice in 60 seconds for pointing out a lack of fundamental comprehension of what you’re actually upset about

This community is obnoxious

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I don't think this has been anything more than a small blip to Apple's reputation. If I were not on Hackernews (like 99+% of Apple users), I would have either not heard or given second thought to this move.

It’s on Reuters and many other news outlets. The press are still doing their job for the moment at least.

I think it dominating Reddit for last week might be bringing a lot of attention too.

Kind of surprising how tone deaf Apple's response has been despite this.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#86
post #64
post #37

They're willing to kill the platform over this? What's going over there on the west coast?

They know they can essentially wait out the public outcry, plus they can even buffer things a little bit by calling their critics "confused" and introduce measures that don't address anything but sound reasonable to lay persons in an effort to distort the conversation. The platform is not in danger. But if it were, then yes, I think they'd still risk it. It's either that or getting shut out of markets gradually by la…

> It's either that or getting shut out of markets gradually by law enforcement and governments.

How come that's not happening to desktop Linux then?

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#87
post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

> This problem is the capability

> The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist.

I've been having trouble following this argument over the last week. Isn't it clear that the capability already exists? Whether or not Apple goes through with its CSAM plan, the capability is evidently there.

In other words, since Apple is a closed system, the capability was there before they announced the CSAM plans. Their announcement has changed nothing about capability other than reminding people that Apple has privileged access to the data on iPhones.

I guess the question is, if Apple does the CSAM program does that make them more likely to cave to government pressure to search for other things? And to do so without telling users?

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. A friend of mine asked what was happening, and I just said "it's a big deal, biggest thing in a long time". Antennagate is a good comparison -- though this seems bigger. Impacts of Antennagate long term seemed minimal.

Sadly this will likely be little to no impact on Apple long term either. I too agree this is coming from the government. They have found their loophole of using "private industry" to do all the dirty stuff they cannot directly do.

Given that privacy has been what Apple was using as they key selling point in their ad campaign, and now they've completely subverted that and mainstream media is picking it up and people are noticing, I suspect this will impact them far more than they expected.

While Apple deserves all the fallout they're getting and more, I'm disappointed that the NCMEC that pushed for this isn't also receiving more scrutiny and criticism. Multiple people have now pointed out that their database contains false positives, which is absolutely terrifying. Completely legal, harmless, no-nudity-no-humans pictures can get your life ruined. The truth coming out later doesn't matter when your home gets raided and it slips out that you were caught sharing multiple images that matched hashes from the NCMEC child porn database.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#89
post #9

With this much bad PR (and Apple hates bad PR), why is Apple pretty much holding its position?

Because this is likely not about making money, it's about expanding surveillance. Once this becomes accepted they can ratchet it up bit-by-bit. Each the the outrage will be less and less. For example imagine creating a new tax for 1% of purchases. People would be outraged. Now imagine raising sales tax instead by 1% (ex 7% to 8%.) Sure some people would be upset, but it would be a smaller number than the "new" tax. T…

You can't have a massive new fake war - the War on Domestic Terorrism - without ideally having new ways to track and surveil anyone (everyone) that is going against the machine politically. They need new capabilities and they're absolutely going to put them into place, asap. Did you see their reaction to the populist Trump circus? The globalists viewed it as a mortal threat. Everything they built since WW2 was in jeopardy as far as they were concerned. Their ability to launch more forever wars, endless foreign adventurism, obsessive (psychotic) superpower global meddling, all of it under threat from rising populism (represented by both Trump and Sanders) and a growing rejection of the entirely failed decades-long approach by the globalists that has led to the US being buried under nearly $30 trillion in debt and numerous catastrophic wars. Just look at what these monsters are saying publicly on MSNBC, CNN, et al. They're telling everybody what they're planning to do, they're putting it right out there. Look at their framing: we're going to target the domestic population; they're de facto saying that. They couldn't be more open about the authoritarian nightmare they have in mind. They perceive their system as being under risk from populist revolt against them and their agenda, and they're launching a counter offensive (the empire is striking back), it's under way right now. Bet on it.

It's quite simple: the culture of bureaucrats that have dominated Washington DC and its policies in the post WW2 era, they acquired a position of power the likes of which has rarely been seen in all of human history. Now, ask yourself: do you really think they're ready to give that power up? They're ready to stop treating the rest of the planet like it's their toy, to do with as they please. Then ask yourself: what do you think they're prepared to do to stave off risks to that power? The risk that they might lose their precious. And there you go, you have your answer. They're willing to do many of the same things other authoritarians have been willing to do. The US isn't Soviet Russia, that's not the suggestion; it doesn't need to be to start putting political opponents (fringe rabble rousers; whether libertarian or socialist - see: Clinton vs Sanders; that's globalist establishment vs domestic socialist) into prison and surveiling everyone in a desperate attempt to retain their power. That kind of power is an intense drug, they're addicts of the worst kind, you can tell by how they behave in regards to the rest of the world, how they treat the rest of the world.

To ensure they keep their power, to keep their globalist forever war machine (and everything that goes with it), they need to put the boot on rising domestic risks to that power.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#90
post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

I just have to wonder who green-lit this idea to begin with. Every single other company is riding a post-covid tidal wave of sales. as WFH becomes a reality for so many workers, apple products are positioned to really take center stage for a massive segment of consumers...

and then this. Apple intentionally injects uncertainty and controversy? what were they thinking?? sure its just phones right now but im sure mac users are wondering about workstations and laptops? the damage control being spun right now is absolutely overwhelming.

im also surprised to see no other players like MS or Google rushing to take advantage of the outrage. even players like Purism seem to be ignoring the event.

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