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After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#61

Post by busymom0 »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #26
ls612 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A FISA subpoena or an NSL can only compel Apple to give certain types of information that Apple already has. They can’t compel Apple to gather information they don’t already have.

You have far more faith in a system of secret courts and gag orders than I do.

Yep. FBI Lawyer, Kevin Clinesmith gets to lie to the FISA court, fabricate emails to get 2-hop warrants and then gets zero days in prison and as of this month is allowed to practice law again. It's an absolute joke.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#62

Post by norov »

cletus wrote: post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that they are doing huge damage to their reputation and trust for bigger reasons. Perhaps there are international or national security issues they are told to comply with that are not quite in the public view yet.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#64

Post by ud_0 »

swiley wrote: post #37

They're willing to kill the platform over this? What's going over there on the west coast?

They know they can essentially wait out the public outcry, plus they can even buffer things a little bit by calling their critics "confused" and introduce measures that don't address anything but sound reasonable to lay persons in an effort to distort the conversation.

The platform is not in danger. But if it were, then yes, I think they'd still risk it. It's either that or getting shut out of markets gradually by law enforcement and governments.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#65

Post by goodells »

heavyset_go wrote: post #54
cletus wrote: post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

> This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. Apple even says it themselves[1]: > This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time. [1] https://www.apple.com/…

I can't wait until /child-safety 404s or redirects to /safety and there's a wall of marketing blurb (possibly only in Chinese at first) that explains how 'national security' concerns are reported to the CCP.

This has totally pushed me over the edge, though I'll admit I was oblivious to begin with. My plan is to replace the MacBooks with a Thinkpad P15 gen 2 running Ubuntu and replace the iPhone with something running Ubuntu Touch (Volla Phone, Fairphone, OnePlus One). Screw not having control.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#66

Post by thoughtstheseus »

dwighttk wrote: post #39
dkersten wrote: post #19

So they're still retaining the ability to look on users devices? I have nothing against them looking at the abuse material, I have a problem with them having power over my device, which could be piggy-backed on by state actors (or others) for their own purposes later. Nobody is against them trying to prevent child sexual abuse, pretty sure we all agree that fighting that is important, but doing so by creating what is…

Don’t use iCloud photos

Don’t use Apple products. The scanning is on device.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#67

Post by tehnub »

They put out a new paper [0] describing the security thread model they were working with, and this paragraph on page 9 stood out to me:

The perceptual CSAM hash database is included, in an encrypted form, as part of the signed operating system. It is never downloaded or updated separately over the Internet or through any other mechanism. This claim is subject to code inspection by security researchers like all other iOS device-side security claims.

Could someone tell me how that inspection works? Are there researchers who are given the source code?

[0]: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Security_Threat_Model...

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#68

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

schappim wrote: post #9

With this much bad PR (and Apple hates bad PR), why is Apple pretty much holding its position?

They put themselves into a position where backing out is also extremely costly.

a) it means they have to publicly admit that what they did was a bad idea, which will fuel another news cycle

b) backing out of it will get them criticized for "protecting pedophiles", maybe even the NCMEC (who privately praised them in the "screeching voices of the minority" memo) will now publicly criticize and shame them to get what it wants

c) now that they've put this idea on the table, there will be even more government pressure to mandate/implement it. Even if they back out of the implementation, just by bringing this proposal up, Apple may have just destroyed not just the privacy of their users, but of everyone.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#69

Post by swiley »

SnowProblem wrote: post #56

I have a 4" iPhone SE. Love it, but Apple has continued to push me away these last four years. I no longer use any other Apple products except for this 4-year-old phone. What alternatives are there for small phone fans? Sony used to make an Xperia Compact that was nice, but I think they discontinued it.

I think there's an out of tree kernel for the SE. You could give PostmarketOS a shot if you have a lot of patience.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#70

Post by heavyset_go »

ls612 wrote: post #18
adrr wrote: post #4

How does that stop a FISA subpoena with a gag order? The system exists that any secret government order can exploit.

A FISA subpoena or an NSL can only compel Apple to give certain types of information that Apple already has. They can’t compel Apple to gather information they don’t already have.

Check this out[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/...

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