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After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

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Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#51

Post by bpodgursky »

klipklop wrote: post #27
schappim wrote: post #9

With this much bad PR (and Apple hates bad PR), why is Apple pretty much holding its position?

Because this is likely not about making money, it's about expanding surveillance. Once this becomes accepted they can ratchet it up bit-by-bit. Each the the outrage will be less and less. For example imagine creating a new tax for 1% of purchases. People would be outraged. Now imagine raising sales tax instead by 1% (ex 7% to 8%.) Sure some people would be upset, but it would be a smaller number than the "new" tax. T…

The reason Apple actually cares about the feature though is probably to maintain sales in China (which will require this kind of surveillance soon).

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#54

Post by heavyset_go »

cletus wrote: post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

> This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access.

Apple even says it themselves[1]:

> This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time.

[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#55

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

concinds wrote: post #40

These stories have been top of HN for more than a week, indicating fascination. Yet non-technical mainstream articles make the bulk of it, and Apple's just released detailed (and convincing) threat report PDF is getting buried. An unfortunate recipe that'll solidify misunderstandings and keep the conversation much more emotional than it should be. Security Threat Model Review of the Apple Child Safety Features [pdf]…

> solidify misunderstandings

The key issue here is the very concept of "Apple turns your iPhone into a snitch", and I haven't seen any misunderstanding around that.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#56

Post by SnowProblem »

I have a 4" iPhone SE. Love it, but Apple has continued to push me away these last four years. I no longer use any other Apple products except for this 4-year-old phone. What alternatives are there for small phone fans? Sony used to make an Xperia Compact that was nice, but I think they discontinued it.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#57

Post by jsjohnst »

belorn wrote: post #47
jsjohnst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Further, is there any doubt that these “CSAM”² hash databases aren’t already shared between countries? Because if there was doubt, there shouldn’t be, because agencies do share across borders. ² - reason for the scare quotes is because I have first hand knowledge of non-CSAM content being in NCMEC’s database (most likely via data entry errors, but I can’t be for sure).

Images of bonsai trees?

> Images of bonsai trees?

Ha! Come to think of it, I think that was one example. The main examples that came to memory (it’s been almost 8 years since I was involved) when discussing this last week were essentially extremely common photos (like the stock Windows XP background, among others).

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#58

Post by finolex1 »

cletus wrote: post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

Unfortunately, I don't think this has been anything more than a small blip to Apple's reputation. If I were not on Hackernews (like 99+% of Apple users), I would have either not heard or given second thought to this move.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#59

Post by musha68k »

istingray wrote: post #12
Invictus0 wrote: post #7

It should be obvious by now that Apple has been coerced into building this scanning system, and the CSAM scanning is just the front for a much more broad "national security" backdoor. Apple's PR team has surely been shitting bricks for the entire week--this is the worst PR debacle they've had since the iPhone 4 Antennagate in 2010.

Completely agree. A friend of mine asked what was happening, and I just said "it's a big deal, biggest thing in a long time". Antennagate is a good comparison -- though this seems bigger. Impacts of Antennagate long term seemed minimal.

This is way bigger than any RF engineering mishap.

I’m going to actively evangelize alternatives to Apple devices and that’s coming from someone who has been doing Apple evangelizing since OSX Panther days. Tens of thousands of dollars of bought devices and services not including all the people I convinced to make the switch over the years.

I’m sure I’m not the only one in this regard.

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