This perfectly illustrates the problem: the content being scanned for can change arbitrarily and on a whim. Gun, meet foot.
After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
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Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#42How does that stop a FISA subpoena with a gag order? The system exists that any secret government order can exploit.
A FISA subpoena or an NSL can only compel Apple to give certain types of information that Apple already has. They can’t compel Apple to gather information they don’t already have.
That can’t be true because the old pen/trap orders required installation of a device to record the calls.
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#43It should be obvious by now that Apple has been coerced into building this scanning system, and the CSAM scanning is just the front for a much more broad "national security" backdoor. Apple's PR team has surely been shitting bricks for the entire week--this is the worst PR debacle they've had since the iPhone 4 Antennagate in 2010.
Completely agree. A friend of mine asked what was happening, and I just said "it's a big deal, biggest thing in a long time". Antennagate is a good comparison -- though this seems bigger. Impacts of Antennagate long term seemed minimal.
Sadly this will likely be little to no impact on Apple long term either. I too agree this is coming from the government. They have found their loophole of using "private industry" to do all the dirty stuff they cannot directly do.
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#44We could probably increase the vaccination rate if we snooped on peoples' phones to find out if they are participating in vaccine-hesitant behavior, and then rate-limited traffic to websites and apps that peddle this dangerous misinformation.
How many people have to lose their lives in the service of some pedantic idea of "privacy"? It's a computer looking at it, it's not even a human person.
I think tech companies need a hippocratic oath similar to "first do no harm". Apple should not be engaging in misinformation trafficking, and should at the very least be working to minimize harm by preventing people form falling victim to dangerous, unsubstantiated, and un-fact-checked information. This is especially important when our elected officials use the considerable power that has been gifted to them by the people to put peoples' lives in danger by spreading dangerous misinformation.
What role did apple's inaction on this have in the pandemic? In the January 6th insurrectionist's attempt to overturn a validated, secure, and duly certified democratic election? What role did Apple's inaction play in the attempted kidnapping of the governor of Michigan?
By refusing to help, they are partially responsible for these things. It's time for us to demand that they do their fair share of helping. Inaction is itself an action.
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This is sarcasm, of course. For how long?
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#45It was not that long ago that Apple wrote this letter https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/.
> Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#46This article misses the point completely. It was never about what they were looking for, it was that they were looking at all. The quiet part is, once they get acceptance of the snooping using the bogeyman of the day, it will eventually encompass other behavior up to and including political dissent etc.
There is also the issue that closed door arbitration of heinous crimes are the perfect tool to put away dissidents. A very convenient excuse to avoid proper checks and balances. "No, you cannot verify, because you aren't allowed to look at the illegal material that proves their guilt"
Is this actually true? If I was arrested for an image on my phone, would no one in the judge/jury team be allowed to see the image that was flagged? I understand it’s allegedly contraband, but if I were a judge I don’t think I’d take an algorithm’s word for it.
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#47This article misses the point completely. It was never about what they were looking for, it was that they were looking at all. The quiet part is, once they get acceptance of the snooping using the bogeyman of the day, it will eventually encompass other behavior up to and including political dissent etc.
I agree. Further, is there any doubt that these “CSAM”² hash databases aren’t already shared between countries? Because if there was doubt, there shouldn’t be, because agencies do share across borders. ² - reason for the scare quotes is because I have first hand knowledge of non-CSAM content being in NCMEC’s database (most likely via data entry errors, but I can’t be for sure).
Images of bonsai trees?
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#48This does not address the issue of perceptual hash collisions and false positives at all, nor does it address the issue of on device scanning nor their claim that, according to Apple[1]: > This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time. People don't want their property spying on them and reporting them to the police. They don't want pe…
You may be interested in this:
Security Threat Model Review of the Apple Child Safety Features [pdf] (apple.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28173134
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#49And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…
You are completely correct and I find this turn of events hilarious. They are onto the bargaining stage of grief.
Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations
#50Apple these days is the type of company to make a mistake, think they are never wrong, blame anyone but themselves and then change a little bit, only for it to go over like a dead balloon. It reminds me of the Apple Silicon dev kit. No refunds, ok refunds but you have to spend them in a certain time, ok fine you can use them for a longer period and for anything.
They are probably completely flabbergasted that people are upset about this so they make this change after a week, completely missing the point.