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After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#31

Post by jsjohnst »

metiscus wrote: post #2

This article misses the point completely. It was never about what they were looking for, it was that they were looking at all. The quiet part is, once they get acceptance of the snooping using the bogeyman of the day, it will eventually encompass other behavior up to and including political dissent etc.

I agree. Further, is there any doubt that these “CSAM”² hash databases aren’t already shared between countries? Because if there was doubt, there shouldn’t be, because agencies do share across borders.

² - reason for the scare quotes is because I have first hand knowledge of non-CSAM content being in NCMEC’s database (most likely via data entry errors, but I can’t be for sure).

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#33

Post by silasdavis »

chrischen wrote: post #11
schappim wrote: post #9

With this much bad PR (and Apple hates bad PR), why is Apple pretty much holding its position?

Potentially something like a national security letter and they can’t reveal the real reason behind it. I agree this feature is off-brand for Apple and came out of the blue.

Is that consistent with the amount of time this feature took to implement?

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#34

Post by captainredbeard »

ls612 wrote: post #18
adrr wrote: post #4

How does that stop a FISA subpoena with a gag order? The system exists that any secret government order can exploit.

A FISA subpoena or an NSL can only compel Apple to give certain types of information that Apple already has. They can’t compel Apple to gather information they don’t already have.

Hahaha an NSL can do more than that.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#35

Post by heavyset_go »

This does not address the issue of perceptual hash collisions and false positives at all, nor does it address the issue of on device scanning nor their claim that, according to Apple[1]:

> This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time.

People don't want their property spying on them and reporting them to the police. They don't want people looking at their photos or thumbnails. It's patronizing, invasive and embarrassing to have your privacy violated like that.

[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#36

Post by deugo »

metiscus wrote: post #2

This article misses the point completely. It was never about what they were looking for, it was that they were looking at all. The quiet part is, once they get acceptance of the snooping using the bogeyman of the day, it will eventually encompass other behavior up to and including political dissent etc.

I think this is (quietly) already happening: https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-facebook-tech-g...

Instead of hashes looking for sexual abuse images, hashes look at signs of white supremacist behavior. Instead of reporting such racism or behavior to the government, it is shared with all the major tech companies, including AirBnB and Paypal.

So, if Facebook deems you to be a political outcast, based on your conversations on their platform, you may find yourself without access to hotels or online payment platforms. The bogeyman of the day is the white supremacist, and coordinated snooping by big tech is the quiet part.

> Over the next few months, the group will add attacker manifestos - often shared by sympathizers after white supremacist violence - and other publications and links flagged by U.N. initiative Tech Against Terrorism. It will use lists from intelligence-sharing group Five Eyes, adding URLs and PDFs from more groups, including the Proud Boys, the Three Percenters and neo-Nazis.

> The firms, which include Twitter (TWTR.N) and Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) YouTube, share "hashes," unique numerical representations of original pieces of content that have been removed from their services. Other platforms use these to identify the same content on their own sites in order to review or remove it.

As a company to become part of the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism, you have to pledge your support to expanding from terrorism towards all online extremism. If you can't accept that, they will still send a speaker to educate your company.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#38

Post by spoonjim »

metiscus wrote: post #2

This article misses the point completely. It was never about what they were looking for, it was that they were looking at all. The quiet part is, once they get acceptance of the snooping using the bogeyman of the day, it will eventually encompass other behavior up to and including political dissent etc.

And, just introducing this idea can make the concept real, even if Apple cancels this plan tomorrow. Country X could introduce a law saying “all companies that sell phones here must scan and report for these hashes” and based on recent trends, the companies will just roll over and say Uncle.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#39

Post by dwighttk »

dkersten wrote: post #19

So they're still retaining the ability to look on users devices? I have nothing against them looking at the abuse material, I have a problem with them having power over my device, which could be piggy-backed on by state actors (or others) for their own purposes later. Nobody is against them trying to prevent child sexual abuse, pretty sure we all agree that fighting that is important, but doing so by creating what is…

Don’t use iCloud photos

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#40

Post by concinds »

These stories have been top of HN for more than a week, indicating fascination. Yet non-technical mainstream articles make the bulk of it, and Apple's just released detailed (and convincing) threat report PDF is getting buried. An unfortunate recipe that'll solidify misunderstandings and keep the conversation much more emotional than it should be.

Security Threat Model Review of the Apple Child Safety Features [pdf] (apple.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28173134

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