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Elementary OS 6 Odin

blog.elementary.io

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Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#81

Post by orthecreedence »

veeti wrote: post #58
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't say I've stumbled upon a lot of desktop apps (not terminal utilities) that are not on Flathub. Perhaps you just don't use that many things that aren't really popular or well known? I can't find PuTTY and KeePass (though obviously there are alternatives in those cases), applications that both have Linux versions and that I use every day (and aren't even that unknown). Also, unfortunately the limitations of Fla…

What is the use case for running PuTTY on Linux? I'm curious.

Window management. It's basically a way to segregate a general terminal (usually used for local stuff) from a window specifically for SSH.

For me this was a much bigger issue when I was on Windows, but also in Ubuntu which groups programs together similarly to the Windows taskbar. I'm on i3 now mostly and just use a normal terminal for ssh, but for quite some time I was using putty on linux specifically for window management.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#82

Post by jcelerier »

azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs

That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#84

Post by appleiigs »

azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

>Their own forks of popular apps?

They do their own apps. It's actually one of their most frequent criticism - they recreate the wheel in building their own apps instead of focusing on the OS. And they do it for consistency, which is also goes against your other point.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#86

Post by temp8964 »

nineteen999 wrote: post #80
temp8964 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did google around but couldn’t get it work reliably. It seems have something with which desktop environment I use. And the performance isn’t great. Also, I am not sure what you mean “jumpbox”, but it sounds like you don’t use the remote machine locally.

Pretty sure I had to tweak some settings in Xrdp.ini, it wasn't the default - ordinarily it would start a whole new desktop session for each connection. We use it with the stock gnome on RHEL7 but I'm pretty sure it would work the same way with any DE. Performance seems okay for me as long as you don't use fancy backgrounds. Not as good as native windows RDP, but definitely usable. These are secured jumpboxes in our…

I found it particularly difficult to remote into the same session as the one I log in locally (seating in front of the machine).

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#87

Post by beermonster »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #78
beermonster wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense? If you mean the fact there are multiple solutions, I don't think it's anything to do with Linux Desktop. I don't think that's even to do with Linux. More the plethora of alternatives in general when using FOSS. But that to some is its strength, not failure.

I disagree. Now to ensure I can install software I need not just one package manager, but at least 2 or 3 (atp, flatpak, snap). Of course that doesn't cover all the bases either, I'm still occasionally going to have to compile something from source because the developer didn't even bother making a binary because they don't want to build it for 5+ different packaging formats, several of which will need constant mainte…

> Fragmentation of a platform is bad, and Linux Desktop is so fragmented

This is the point I'm making though. There is fragmentation on the desktop (even if we just stick to window managers, display managers, desktop environments). But there's fragmentation EVERYWHERE. I can choose from thousands of distros, in numerous package formats, with different opinions on that collection of software and its default configuration.

Linux Desktop is fragmented but no worse, IMHO, than elsewhere. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but some people do like the choice otherwise those other choices wouldn't exist.

Android is also a prime example of the same thing.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#88

Post by BeefWellington »

input_sh wrote: post #67
imglorp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any of the Flatpak advocates have a response to this security criticism? Eg - https://flatkill.org/2020/

See: https://theevilskeleton.gitlab.io/2021/02/11/response-to-fla... There's also Flatseal ( https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.github.tchx84.Flatseal ) as a user-friendly way of managing permissions for flatpak apps. This version of elementary OS comes with its own permission manager, but with my limited experience with both, it seems like it allows tweaking less permissions than Flatseal.

> See: https://theevilskeleton.gitlab.io/2021/02/11/response-to-fla...

Everything in that reference basically says "yep the criticism is valid" and in a few cases the author expands on that with "but it's ok because..." and then lists various reasons why it's fine that it's still a problem but that's it's being worked on. They also had to correct a good chunk of just outright incorrect information they were supplying mid-post about system updates.

One item was addressed, which was that flatpak now notifies the user that sandbox escapes are possible based on the app's configuration.

As a response to the criticisms, it's not a great one.

Consider also, there are better ways that some of these issues could have been tackled. Why not have flatpak prompt for permissions as they're used, e.g.: "This app wants to open your home directory" rather than at install-time. That would make it abundantly clearer to the end users this is aimed at.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#89

Post by handrous »

jcelerier wrote: post #82
azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

Sure, and everyone complains about that on Win10 because it sucks there, too. Windows the OS has improved greatly over the years, in many ways, but the UI has mostly not improved, or has even regressed, since, oh, I dunno, win98/2k. Maybe WinXP.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#90

Post by nineteen999 »

temp8964 wrote: post #86
nineteen999 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure I had to tweak some settings in Xrdp.ini, it wasn't the default - ordinarily it would start a whole new desktop session for each connection. We use it with the stock gnome on RHEL7 but I'm pretty sure it would work the same way with any DE. Performance seems okay for me as long as you don't use fancy backgrounds. Not as good as native windows RDP, but definitely usable. These are secured jumpboxes in our…

I found it particularly difficult to remote into the same session as the one I log in locally (seating in front of the machine).

Ah okay. Yeah these are VM's running on an ESX cluster in a datacenter, I wouldn't want to sit in front of one. It'd be noisy and awkward since you can't use the desktop from an ESX console.
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