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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#281

Post by quickthrowman »

jeswin wrote: post #254
quickthrowman wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid just doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that. I disagree. His Chinese girlfriend was begging him to stop, but he carried on. It’s either hubris or not realizing what China is willing to do to stop people from criticizing it. He was also enrolled in a Chinese uni…

So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way. There was also no risk to his GF. At worst, the relationship ends - it's not like the CCP is going to go after her (she did ask him to stop).

> So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way.

If his goal was to complete his studies at the Chinese university or maintain a relationship with his doctoral advisor who has ties to China, or to not make life for his girlfriend and her family difficult, yes.

I don’t agree with the methods of the CCP to silence dissent, but that’s reality. Nothing will change on account of this guy.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#282

Post by wolverine876 »

queuebert wrote: post #173

As a faculty member and PhD advisor, let me offer my reading between the lines. The student and advisor did not get along already. The student went to China and found a girlfriend. The lockdown separated them. Hormones flared, exacerbating what was probably already a tense situation. The student was increasingly a problem (note the screaming at the advisor mentioned in TFA). The advisor decided that it was no longer…

> let me offer my reading between the lines

But the rest is entirely fabricated and ignores the clear statements of the advisor themself, which is that they didn't want to offend China and would for that reason terminate the relationship.

> the advisor had a convenient out and took it

How is it a convenient out? 'CCP pressure' doesn't sound like a convenient reason. The advisor could have pulled the 'you're no long enrolled' trick at any time.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#283

Post by wolverine876 »

queuebert wrote: post #190
amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I got my PhD, so let me read between your lines ([1]). Faculty have little fiefdoms and they expect students to live on salaries bellow minimum wage. If the advisor is sub-par (i.e. the university made a mistake hiring them) it's incredibly difficult to change advisors without poisoning the relationship with other faculty members. Dealing with sub-par professors sucks. Some are not too bright. Others sexually ha…

You're entirely correct. Academia is broken is so many ways. A lot of my colleagues are wastes of space and some are indeed harmful. I don't think I'm a great advisor either. No one teaches us how to advise students. My take is based entirely on facts of the article interpreted through an advisor's lens rather than that of a journalist trying to get clicks.

> a journalist trying to get clicks

Now you've also fabricated something about the journalist, their motive and character. Do you have any factual basis for that? What do you know about the journalist?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#284

Post by wolverine876 »

queuebert wrote: post #192
ChemSpider wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your take is not supported by any of the evidence. The email exchanges (as seen by the newspaper) show a friendly relationship up until the tweets.

Quote from the article: "The professor went on to explain that the relationship of trust had already been strained, because Gerber had «lost his temper» during a conversation a year earlier, and had told her that he no longer wanted to continue his doctorate at St. Gallen in any form, and no longer needed her as a doctoral supervisor."

That was after the fact, with no evidence, after Gerber had contested the separation. The emails contemporaneous with the events clearly show differently.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#285

Post by wolverine876 »

lixtra wrote: post #251
Marvin_Martian wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not evidence. That is just a claim made by the professor, which is denied by the former student and which, according the the article, is not reflected in the tone of the emails exchanged at this time, either.

The nice tone of the professor’s emails (after the run-in) could be also proof of her goodwill. While student showed his lack of self control on twitter. This is just a different aspect of the same facts.

> The nice tone of the professor’s emails (after the run-in) could be also proof of her goodwill.

What was nice about it?

> student showed his lack of self control on twitter

I don't see a lack of control on Twitter. The student wasn't talking to the professor, and there is nothing inappropriate about their Twitter comments as reported, beyond the cartoon which IIRC the advisor didn't cite.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#286

Post by wolverine876 »

queuebert wrote: post #247
Marvin_Martian wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not evidence. That is just a claim made by the professor, which is denied by the former student and which, according the the article, is not reflected in the tone of the emails exchanged at this time, either.

Isn't eye-witness testimony considered evidence? Maybe the professor is lying, true. But also professional emails tend to be more cordial than in-person conversations. In terms of motives, the student has more motive to lie than the professor, since the professor has nothing at stake.

The student has factual evidence, the emails.

> Isn't eye-witness testimony considered evidence?

C'mon.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#287

Post by rob_c »

rob_c wrote: post #183
amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Here, here. You sir have earned 1xvirtual-pint. Very well said.

Given I'm agreeing with the poster and thanking him for his contribution I guess I have to state for those who don't understand the topic.

This is not irony but something that apparently doesn't translate well out of Northern Britain...

I'm guessing this site has something against buying a pint of beer for someone you agree with?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#288

Post by wolverine876 »

coliveira wrote: post #182
unishark wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's information on his Swiss PhD program in the article. The Swiss University advised him to de-register so he could maintain years of eligibility or whatever, and the Swiss advisor continued to supervise him obviously. The University had told him that re-registering upon his return would be "no problem" with the support of the advisor. So he kind of got caught in a transitional stage where he has no options if a…

> the complaints came "from China" And that's the whole point of this piece of misinformation. "Came from China" doesn't mean that the country of China was involved, but that people in China involved didn't want this or that. It could similarly be a problem with news that "came from Switzerland", or that "came from USA", but of course the media wants to play the game of China (the country) as a bad actor.

It's not the people of China, who should be free to criticize their government and talk about any topic. It's the CCP that stops them and others worldwide.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#289

Post by wolverine876 »

zahllos wrote: post #218
usr1106 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be true. Unlike in Germany and many other European countries university studies are not free of charge in Switzerland. No idea about PhD.

I'm not familiar with universities outside the ETH rules (ETHZ/EPFL only) but students are paid a salary at these universities and hold dual status as employees and students. I'm not sure if their tuition is waived. Even if they pay the same tuition as masters or bachelors students this is usually around 800-900 CHF per semester, the cost of 2-3 months health insurance. Not money you want to pay if you don't have to,…

> students are paid a salary at these universities and hold dual status as employees and students

OT: How much? Undergraduates too?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#290

Post by ChemSpider »

krageon wrote: post #272
ChemSpider wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. This take is supported by the fact that the Prof refuses to reveal the email address of the Canadian student. My guess is similar to yours. She received emails e. g. from a Chinese consulate but is not allowed to reveal that fact - so she made up this "Canadian student" story.

The likelihood that any consulate bothers itself to tell some uni student to shut up is extremely low.

Well, you would be surprised. It seems attempting to censor Twitter and other publications is part of their job. They even review German children books:

https://www.dw.com/en/china-gets-german-childrens-book-about...

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