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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#241

Post by quickthrowman »

jjoonathan wrote: post #239
amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Wow. Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid simply doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that. Infuriating: you know what's infuriating? The person who claims to share the values this guy is standing up for but can't stop trash-talking him. Naïveté: you know what's naive? Thinking that rolling over and ac…

> Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid just doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that.

I disagree. His Chinese girlfriend was begging him to stop, but he carried on. It’s either hubris or not realizing what China is willing to do to stop people from criticizing it. He was also enrolled in a Chinese university, and was undoubtedly warned about criticizing the government.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#242

Post by datameta »

jacksonkmarley wrote: post #79

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point: > In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what hap…

Also the following account of his experience in China, which certainly served as a greater pretext than the tweets of an account with 10 followers:

> A Chinese professor there told him that his Ph.D. topic was «boring» – a euphemism for being too critical of the government. As a part of his fellowship, he also had to attend classes, and says today he couldn’t believe how much censorship took place in the course of everyday university life. When he submitted an essay on reeducation camps, he received the lowest grade possible. In an email to his professor in St. Gallen, he wrote: «Maybe I've just been unlucky.»

I am deeply bothered by this totalitarian allergic reaction to criticism at even the lowest level. However as someone who is intimately familiar with life in the soviet union, this is not simply a case of bad luck if one takes actions that significantly increase one's radar signature to the censorship arm. If you are perceived as being "troublesome" by those who stand to lose much through being affiliated with someone openly critical of the regime, they may well take action to smooth out this political perturbance in their lives. They may do so whether they are staunch believers in the status quo or simply wishing to remain neutral at worst.

Now I am not saying he should not have done what he did, but he should have been more aware of the possible outcomes to avoid being so blindsided.

It would have been far more effective to relay his thoughts through more sympathetic channels. If the first person one's government criticism goes through is not a fan, that is a shaky start for one's efforts. A support network is needed. One can't shout into the void alone.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#243

Post by queuebert »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #201
queuebert wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entirely correct. Academia is broken is so many ways. A lot of my colleagues are wastes of space and some are indeed harmful. I don't think I'm a great advisor either. No one teaches us how to advise students. My take is based entirely on facts of the article interpreted through an advisor's lens rather than that of a journalist trying to get clicks.

You know what, I owe you an apology for this: "[1] I'll admit it's a bit weird to see a professor that I'm assuming given the forum, is in a tech field "read between the lines" instead of engaging the facts." I'll keep it up in my comment because I despise it when ppl scrub clean what they wrote. Either way, sorry for making it personal.

HN is the best people. Thanks for the apology and no hard feelings here.

And I'm sorry if you had some bad experiences in grad school. Some of us, at least, are trying to be better.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#244

Post by belter »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #193
esquivalience wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reading of this is: "freedom of speech is protected in this country". And that is true, not the fairytale you suggest it to be.

I didn't suggest anything, generally I avoid suggestion. It's pusillanimous. Switzerland has a lot of freedom, certainly compared to China and other European countries. It's without a doubt my favorite country, one I'd want to live in. But, as we're finding out, the "free speech protections" that we drone on about are only as good as we are willing to insist on. "freedom of speech is protected in this country" is mea…

Sounds wonderful. Would then my religious convictions be protected in Switzerland according to law or does my deity has to contact the Swiss government somehow ?

Because I am a Pastafarian, and I can't stand the abuse and mockery anymore. I was thinking of emigrating to Switzerland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#245

Post by delusional »

bmn__ wrote: post #105
unishark wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's information on his Swiss PhD program in the article. The Swiss University advised him to de-register so he could maintain years of eligibility or whatever, and the Swiss advisor continued to supervise him obviously. The University had told him that re-registering upon his return would be "no problem" with the support of the advisor. So he kind of got caught in a transitional stage where he has no options if a…

It does not pass the smell test. This is not an error one would make. Imagine one gets an email from Z, X-Y , then why would one describe this as "emails (ed: plural!) from China"? My theory that fits the evidence given is that the professor is withholding the real "angry emails from China" because she thinks if those are published, then she definitely won't get a travel visum anymore and thus negatively impact her c…

It's possible. It's also possible that this was the only email, but she got a warning from some Chinese government agency through another channel.

There is of course also the distinct possibility that the professor was personally offended by the tweet (or imagined the offense taken) and made up the "emails from china" to make it seems more impactful.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#246

Post by [deleted] »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

[deleted]

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#247

Post by queuebert »

Marvin_Martian wrote: post #215
queuebert wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote from the article: "The professor went on to explain that the relationship of trust had already been strained, because Gerber had «lost his temper» during a conversation a year earlier, and had told her that he no longer wanted to continue his doctorate at St. Gallen in any form, and no longer needed her as a doctoral supervisor."

Thats not evidence. That is just a claim made by the professor, which is denied by the former student and which, according the the article, is not reflected in the tone of the emails exchanged at this time, either.

Isn't eye-witness testimony considered evidence? Maybe the professor is lying, true. But also professional emails tend to be more cordial than in-person conversations. In terms of motives, the student has more motive to lie than the professor, since the professor has nothing at stake.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#248

Post by ohbleek »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

This comment reads like an attempt at poorly executed propaganda. The comparisons drawn are not only inaccurate but borderline nonsense.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#249

Post by jeswin »

nova22033 wrote: post #225
amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Big Tech squashing our rights How exactly has big tech squashed your rights?

What I find frustrating is discussing something relatively trivial when talking about a totalitarian state.

I am not from the West, and I do wonder if people bring up these just to be polite or to sound impartial.

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