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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#171

Post by thaumasiotes »

Barrin92 wrote: post #71
ipnon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

from the context of the article it seems like he's getting his PhD in Chinese studies, and obviously that likely means you will have relations to China, which is what the professor in question was worried about. It's a little bit like majoring in Iranian studies, insulting the Ayatollah and prophet on Twitter and then being upset when you get barred from the country and people start professionally ditching you. Like,…

> from the context of the article it seems like he's getting his PhD in Chinese studies

Huh? This is what the article says:

>> His research was in the field of environmental pollution.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#172

Post by queuebert »

lixtra wrote: post #21

> He asked via email: «Do you engage in some degree of self-censorship? Do you think it would be too dangerous for me to open a Twitter account?» > Although he received no response, he began tweeting in mid-March. Note: Sometimes, silence is a very loud answer.

As a PhD advisor myself, this is telling. I always respond to all of my students' emails. This suggests a poor relationship between them already exists before the tweeting.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#173

Post by queuebert »

As a faculty member and PhD advisor, let me offer my reading between the lines. The student and advisor did not get along already. The student went to China and found a girlfriend. The lockdown separated them. Hormones flared, exacerbating what was probably already a tense situation.

The student was increasingly a problem (note the screaming at the advisor mentioned in TFA). The advisor decided that it was no longer worth the effort to maintain the unofficial relationship and broke the promise of supporting the student's future re-enrollment. Dealing with unprofessional students sucks. It's very hard to "fire" grad students for unproductivity or workplace issues, unless they are egregious. In this situation the advisor had a convenient out and took it.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#174

Post by nix23 »

beaunative wrote: post #163
dash2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there is any evidence that any PhD student has ever found it hard to get a US visa because of criticizing the US or US policy?

There are plenty Chinese students unable to renew their visa to the US for 'national security' reasons.

I wonder why...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_t...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_Unite...

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#175

Post by amrcnimgrnt »

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem.

However this comment annoyed me:

"«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»"

You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing.

For the naïveté Switzerland is a landlocked country of 10 million people. Tough guys, great companies, great economy, sure. But a minnow. China can and does throw it's weight against people in countries like this.

For the patronizing part of the comment, it's the Western attitude of "this can't happen here", or "that will never get to be so bad" typical of people that are 70 years removed from tyranny (I'm Western myself, but my parents lived through a dictatorship).

This is the attitude that allows people in the West to compartmentalize all the known abuses (snowden leaks, NSA spying on European leaders, Big Tech squashing our rights, etc) and live in a permanent state of double-think.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#176

Post by amrcnimgrnt »

queuebert wrote: post #173

As a faculty member and PhD advisor, let me offer my reading between the lines. The student and advisor did not get along already. The student went to China and found a girlfriend. The lockdown separated them. Hormones flared, exacerbating what was probably already a tense situation. The student was increasingly a problem (note the screaming at the advisor mentioned in TFA). The advisor decided that it was no longer…

Well I got my PhD, so let me read between your lines ([1]).

Faculty have little fiefdoms and they expect students to live on salaries bellow minimum wage. If the advisor is sub-par (i.e. the university made a mistake hiring them) it's incredibly difficult to change advisors without poisoning the relationship with other faculty members.

Dealing with sub-par professors sucks. Some are not too bright. Others sexually harass the female students. All are protected by the moat the university builds around them.

[1] I'll admit it's a bit weird to see a professor that I'm assuming given the forum, is in a tech field "read between the lines" instead of engaging the facts.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#177

Post by esquivalience »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Another reading of this is: "freedom of speech is protected in this country". And that is true, not the fairytale you suggest it to be.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#178

Post by ChemSpider »

queuebert wrote: post #173

As a faculty member and PhD advisor, let me offer my reading between the lines. The student and advisor did not get along already. The student went to China and found a girlfriend. The lockdown separated them. Hormones flared, exacerbating what was probably already a tense situation. The student was increasingly a problem (note the screaming at the advisor mentioned in TFA). The advisor decided that it was no longer…

Your take is not supported by any of the evidence. The email exchanges (as seen by the newspaper) show a friendly relationship up until the tweets.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#179

Post by ghufran_syed »

usr1106 wrote: post #169
ghufran_syed wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree - he is studying china, lived in china, has a chinese girlfriend in china who advised him to stop the critical tweets…and he just kept doing it anyway??? “His girlfriend was shocked when she saw some of the tweets. Talking with him on the telephone, she begged him to stop. Not because she necessarily disagreed with anything. But because she was worried about retaliation by the Chinese government. «I'm i…

So you say only liars and cowards can get PhD today?

I say that jeopardizing the safety of your loved one and her family back in China after they specifically ask you not to take some action, and while you are safely abroad is not a good example of moral courage

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#180

Post by ChemSpider »

bmn__ wrote: post #105
unishark wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's information on his Swiss PhD program in the article. The Swiss University advised him to de-register so he could maintain years of eligibility or whatever, and the Swiss advisor continued to supervise him obviously. The University had told him that re-registering upon his return would be "no problem" with the support of the advisor. So he kind of got caught in a transitional stage where he has no options if a…

It does not pass the smell test. This is not an error one would make. Imagine one gets an email from Z, X-Y , then why would one describe this as "emails (ed: plural!) from China"? My theory that fits the evidence given is that the professor is withholding the real "angry emails from China" because she thinks if those are published, then she definitely won't get a travel visum anymore and thus negatively impact her c…

I agree. This take is supported by the fact that the Prof refuses to reveal the email address of the Canadian student. My guess is similar to yours. She received emails e. g. from a Chinese consulate but is not allowed to reveal that fact - so she made up this "Canadian student" story.
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