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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#161

Post by luckylion »

josephtill wrote: post #63
unabirra wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the post praises BLM and criticizes MAGA... Lots of people have lost their jobs (and even dropped from public funded colleges) because of this. Not sure if you are really not aware of this, or if your comment is not in good faith.

> Only if the post praises BLM and criticizes MAGA... Lots of people have lost their jobs (and even dropped from public funded colleges) because of this. I've never heard of such a thing. Could you give a specific example of these "lots of people"?

Troll accounts are annoying.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#162

Post by petre »

emn13 wrote: post #103
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

I think calling for the professors dismissal in this instance is completely unwarranted. Not only do we have only one side of the story here, we don't even know what those tweets were, or if there's anything else at play here, nor is the relationship very clear here (the supposed student was actually studying in china for 3 years? What exactly was the relationship with the Swiss professor then?) Additionally, it's ju…

The EU can take action against China and it has recently took soft action by updating its customs code¹. However, Germany is not particulary keen on picking fights with China, because they export vehicles to the Chinese market. Let's just say there is not enough political will to do anything like this at this time. There's also the separate issue of banning Huawei 5G network carrier equipment in the EU due to data being leaked to China.

1. https://www.fonoa.com/blog/eu-imports-from-china-after-the-v...

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#163

Post by beaunative »

dash2 wrote: post #147
curiousgal wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if I were a professor and my PhD student was overly critical of the US online, I too would distance myself. Visa applications are hard enough as they are.

Is there is any evidence that any PhD student has ever found it hard to get a US visa because of criticizing the US or US policy?

There are plenty Chinese students unable to renew their visa to the US for 'national security' reasons.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#164

Post by beaunative »

ipnon wrote: post #28
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

Couple of professors who are unfriendly to black people got fired too, not saying its wrong, but its not that different in this case. Someone got offended, someone got fired.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#165

Post by beaunative »

"It depicted a comic character that had been altered and had stereotyped Chinese features, with yellow skin tone and slit eyes"

In the report but often neglected. This is exactly the kind of student professors don't want. Obvious bias in the field of research, and what the heck honestly. If I were the professor I would not sponsor the reapplication either.

I think the student is well aware he has a weak case, otherwise if it's so obvious that it's because of government intervention, even if his own professor doesn't want to supervise him, it shouldn't be difficult to find a new one (there are plenty, I mean PLENTY, researchers critical of the Chinese government, it shouldn't be hard to find one really), the academic field is actually quite protective towards students when it comes to undue influence from the government in general.

Also, the institute he chose to apply to focus on "«strengthen and deepen productive relations with China»". It's not like they've made it unclear. It's quite clear they want to be 'productive' with China. There are plenty who don't, so why does this student applied there? It's like researching the adversary effect of CocoCola at a instutite 'promote understanding of the health benefits of carbonated drinks'. It's not like there is no choice.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#166

Post by [deleted] »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #67
unabirra wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the post praises BLM and criticizes MAGA... Lots of people have lost their jobs (and even dropped from public funded colleges) because of this. Not sure if you are really not aware of this, or if your comment is not in good faith.

Is that true? I had a quick search and i only found one case - a Michael J Dale covered in various outlets alleging dismissal for MAGA support back in 2018. However, i cant find that the case actually went to court. It appears Michael has decided against testing his claim in court? I can find some cases for the opposite - dismissal for criticising president Trimp: Jeff Klinzman had his day in court and was awarded a…

[deleted]

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#167

Post by dm319 »

The more I read of the article the less clear cut this looked. Someone has already mentioned the cartoon, but he had deregistered with the university, on the proviso that support from his phd mentor would allow him to return. When his mentor did not want to mentor him anymore he was actually registered at Wuhan rather than St Gallen, so I can see why this would make it complicated for him to continue there.

Having done a PhD recently and knowing several who have, around the three year mark can be a difficult time for the student-mentor relationship. There is mention that his mentor claims the student had lost their temper with them prior to this happening, so I wouldn't be surprised if things were strained.

Another aspect is the natonality of his mentor. The mentor may have family in China or need to continue strong links with China to continue their career in the field. Regardless of actual Chinese influence, the mentor may simply have been concerned of the impact the student's tweets would have on their career. Obviously still not ideal, but reflects more a 'chilling effect' that comes with heavy handed censorship.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#168

Post by usr1106 »

volta83 wrote: post #135
zupatol wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The swiss university had advised the student to be enrolled only China in order to make it easier for him to complete his PhD at the swiss university afterwards. The swiss university is now evading their moral responsibility by hiding behind the convenient legal situation. The professor explicitly cut ties with the student because she was afraid to lose her ability to get a visa for China. It's unclear how she came t…

Probably this also saved the student some fees as well.

Could be true. Unlike in Germany and many other European countries university studies are not free of charge in Switzerland. No idea about PhD.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#169

Post by usr1106 »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #113
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

Totally agree - he is studying china, lived in china, has a chinese girlfriend in china who advised him to stop the critical tweets…and he just kept doing it anyway??? “His girlfriend was shocked when she saw some of the tweets. Talking with him on the telephone, she begged him to stop. Not because she necessarily disagreed with anything. But because she was worried about retaliation by the Chinese government. «I'm i…

So you say only liars and cowards can get PhD today?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#170

Post by usr1106 »

Legally the university might have done nothing wrong. They had advised him to unregister to play tricks in order to avoid losing his study rights. A trick that is common if you study at more than one university. And works unless there is any kind of problem.

However, the message is: If you deal with China today, either don't think, be a coward or a liar. China is an authoritarian country that increasingly exercises its power outside of the country.

In Western democracies we are used that you can criticize. Strong democracies tolerate heavy criticism until you get into difficulties, others only weaker kinds. There is no doubt that China is very far from any kind of democracy.

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