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An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

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Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#61
post #55
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need the cloud: syncthing can sync your phone and your computer together without any issues. No nasty cloud provider involved: https://syncthing.net/

Looks like Syncthing doesn’t have support/client for iOS though?

There may be 3rd party apps like https://www.mobiussync.com

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#62

At this point we need to be doing more than signing open letters to companies that are completely free to ignore them. If you work for Apple and don't stand up to this, you should find it extremely hard to find employment or acceptance anywhere. If you're a hiring manager, throw the resumes of anyone that worked at Apple in the trash. It should be a black mark on you if you continue to work and contribute to Apple af…

Apple is fundamentally about making Nice Phones, and are among the least morally complicated organizations in the US. If we followed your way, we'd be banning over half the country from occupation. Just look at the moral complexity of the US armed forces, which is entangled in stories of collateral damage from drone strikes, burning of opium fields in Afghanistan, or hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Iraq.

The armed forces is a bad comparison. They have a fundamentally different mission than any given corporation. There are different moral tradeoffs to be made there.

Not to say I agree with the US armed forces' actions -- but comparing the US armed forces to Apple is a bit disingenuous.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#63
post #46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would OSS help in this case? Someone can run a hash, find an “offensive” photo and jail you. Shit, if someone is out to get you, they will dig up any photo on your phone, put it in the “bad hashes” database and just wait for Apple to catch you. And then you’re effed, because no court will want to publicly display a photo that may contain child pornography, so you’ll be jailed without a fair trial. OSS won’t help…

They said FOSS, not OSS. F means free as in freedom. As in you’re free to modify the software running on your phone at will and to your liking and Apple or some government can’t get in your way.. not even for the kids .

So all 12 people in the world who know how to read, modify and install and OS can run their paranoid versions of iOS?

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#65
post #3

Because it’s based on machine learning, why can’t some of the network and weights used for the hash be shared? So we can be sure it is not possible to match anything else than children. The sub narrow network used for detecting only CP is of course secret, but then we know it can’t be used for revealing pictures of police, activists etc

Like stated below, I’m seriously worried about Adversarial examples that fool the network into A) hiding bad pictures being not recognized B) triggering false positives on harmless pictures to discredit people.

Opening up the network would mate it even easier to create the adversarials… Im not sure there is a winning position in the approach they used

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#66
post #45

At this point we need to be doing more than signing open letters to companies that are completely free to ignore them. If you work for Apple and don't stand up to this, you should find it extremely hard to find employment or acceptance anywhere. If you're a hiring manager, throw the resumes of anyone that worked at Apple in the trash. It should be a black mark on you if you continue to work and contribute to Apple af…

That’s such an idealistic stance. 99% of people don’t have the means to engage in militant activism.

It is a very idealistic stance. And precisely because most people can't engage in militant activism, those that can should be.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#67

I’m not sure what to think of the backlash here. I’m sure that people aren’t trying to minimize the evil of child pornography and exploitation. But anything that has the potential to stop or slow it should be fairly considered. People complaining that Apple is scanning your photos, they are already doing that. Where was this backlash when they released the memories feature? Why is scanning your photos for good pictur…

The concern is less about outing people with CSAM and more about Apple building a powerful tool for government surveillance that will most certainly be abused by countries like China and Saudi Arabia when they request that politically dangerous images be added to the database if Apple wants to continue business in their country.

It is incredibly myopic of Apple to implement this feature. You must consider, as an engineer, how your constructions will be abused and used for bad as well as good.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#68
post #41

Honestly I'm glad to see a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously, especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. It can be hard to stand on the side that doesn't immediately appear to be correct. We have already lost so many freedoms for 'national security' and other such blanket terminology. Just be warned, there will be those that unfairly try to cast this as h…

> especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good.

Not surprising at all.

In Russia, _every_ measure to limit internet freedom was introduced under the pretence of fighting child pornography and extremism.

Then, of course, it was used to block the websites of political opponents.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#69
post #63
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said FOSS, not OSS. F means free as in freedom. As in you’re free to modify the software running on your phone at will and to your liking and Apple or some government can’t get in your way.. not even for the kids .

So all 12 people in the world who know how to read, modify and install and OS can run their paranoid versions of iOS?

[deleted]

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#70
post #4

How to complain: don't buy an iphone next time you need a new phone

Boycotting products to change a company's mind won't work because: - not enough people even know about this issue, understand the consequences or remember to act on it the next time a new phone is due - not enough alternatives on the market, and we're probably already boycotting them for other reasons - even with lower sales a company might not see the cause-and-effect There is a general trend in the industry to take…

Hmm. I wonder if a activism-based shopping platform could be something. Basically, a place where you shop, and as part of your purchase you state why you shopped that thing. Can be anything. "I liked the color". "Needed a bigger screen". "Don't want to use Apple any more".
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