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An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

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Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#41

Post by bArray »

Honestly I'm glad to see a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously, especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. It can be hard to stand on the side that doesn't immediately appear to be correct. We have already lost so many freedoms for 'national security' and other such blanket terminology.

Just be warned, there will be those that unfairly try to cast this as helping the distribution of CP. Expect a headline tomorrow: "Edward Snowden et al Supports Child Porn" - or some other hot take.

A few other things:

1. Vote with your feet - Put your money in the pockets of the people aligned to your values.

2. Actively support projects you align with - If you use some open source hardware/software, try to help out (financially or time).

3. Make others aware - Reach out to those around you and inform them, only then they can make an informed choice themselves.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#42

Post by toastal »

Don't support Apple! *You must sign up for a Microsoft GitHub account to sign our petition.

While I like the sentiment of protest, I don't understand this logic of putting it on a closed platform of one of Apple's biggest competitors who also doesn't respect your privacy.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#43

Post by rich_sasha »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #34

At this point we need to be doing more than signing open letters to companies that are completely free to ignore them. If you work for Apple and don't stand up to this, you should find it extremely hard to find employment or acceptance anywhere. If you're a hiring manager, throw the resumes of anyone that worked at Apple in the trash. It should be a black mark on you if you continue to work and contribute to Apple af…

I think this is rather hyperbolic. Vast majority of people at Apple have nothing to do with this. And even people involved in this, I’m not sure how much I can blame them. Soldiers vs generals kind of argument. Also, they likely see the pedo-fighting side of things and think are in the right.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#44

Post by nicce »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #23
mbilal wrote: post #4

How to complain: don't buy an iphone next time you need a new phone

Boycotting products to change a company's mind won't work because: - not enough people even know about this issue, understand the consequences or remember to act on it the next time a new phone is due - not enough alternatives on the market, and we're probably already boycotting them for other reasons - even with lower sales a company might not see the cause-and-effect There is a general trend in the industry to take…

That it is. I'm bit fancied of the ignorance of the people, until it is Apple who is doing it. And Apple is minority compared to other platforms.

I haven't heard much of complains about Windows sending all your file hashes and most of the files into their servers, what they have been doing a very long time with Windows Defender. It is literally the same what Apple is doing now, but without restrictions.

Google and other cloud service providers have scanned your photos for very long time, by using PhotoDNA. On top of images, Google scans also your emails. People forget and move on.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#45

Post by f6v »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #34

At this point we need to be doing more than signing open letters to companies that are completely free to ignore them. If you work for Apple and don't stand up to this, you should find it extremely hard to find employment or acceptance anywhere. If you're a hiring manager, throw the resumes of anyone that worked at Apple in the trash. It should be a black mark on you if you continue to work and contribute to Apple af…

That’s such an idealistic stance. 99% of people don’t have the means to engage in militant activism.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#46

Post by dcow »

bnt wrote: post #38
alichapman wrote: post #31

I'm not usually the most idealistic when it comes to FOSS, but it's stories like this and Apple's stance of "trust us, we promise we know what we're doing and that nothing is going to go wrong" that makes me think all software should be legally required to be open source.

How would OSS help in this case? Someone can run a hash, find an “offensive” photo and jail you. Shit, if someone is out to get you, they will dig up any photo on your phone, put it in the “bad hashes” database and just wait for Apple to catch you. And then you’re effed, because no court will want to publicly display a photo that may contain child pornography, so you’ll be jailed without a fair trial. OSS won’t help…

They said FOSS, not OSS. F means free as in freedom. As in you’re free to modify the software running on your phone at will and to your liking and Apple or some government can’t get in your way.. not even for the kids.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#47

Post by threatofrain »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #34

At this point we need to be doing more than signing open letters to companies that are completely free to ignore them. If you work for Apple and don't stand up to this, you should find it extremely hard to find employment or acceptance anywhere. If you're a hiring manager, throw the resumes of anyone that worked at Apple in the trash. It should be a black mark on you if you continue to work and contribute to Apple af…

Apple is fundamentally about making Nice Phones, and are among the least morally complicated organizations in the US. If we followed your way, we'd be banning over half the country from occupation.

Just look at the moral complexity of the US armed forces, which is entangled in stories of collateral damage from drone strikes, burning of opium fields in Afghanistan, or hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Iraq.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#48

Post by jasonlfunk »

I’m not sure what to think of the backlash here. I’m sure that people aren’t trying to minimize the evil of child pornography and exploitation. But anything that has the potential to stop or slow it should be fairly considered. People complaining that Apple is scanning your photos, they are already doing that. Where was this backlash when they released the memories feature? Why is scanning your photos for good pictures of your dog different that scanning your pictures for exploitive pictures of children? Is the problem that they could then share that information with the authorities?

But of course this feature could be abused. But Apple already has all the power it needs to be abusive. They can push whatever software they want to your devices. They can remotely lock and wipe all your data. They already have the power to do all of these things. This statement is simply an announcement that they will be using some of this power to try to stop one of the worst evils in our world. Until they prove that they will abuse this power, I suggest that we let them try.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#49

Post by nicce »

dcow wrote: post #46
bnt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would OSS help in this case? Someone can run a hash, find an “offensive” photo and jail you. Shit, if someone is out to get you, they will dig up any photo on your phone, put it in the “bad hashes” database and just wait for Apple to catch you. And then you’re effed, because no court will want to publicly display a photo that may contain child pornography, so you’ll be jailed without a fair trial. OSS won’t help…

They said FOSS, not OSS. F means free as in freedom. As in you’re free to modify the software running on your phone at will and to your liking and Apple or some government can’t get in your way.. not even for the kids .

Processor microcode is closed source (Intel/AMD), including most of the BIOS code. You are having hard time to build your devices. Maybe we can see change in the future.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#50

Post by ssss11 »

Related but slightly off-topic: am I the only one that thinks more technology is not the answer to catching crooks? Can’t the police do good old fashioned police work to catch people doing these things? Why does EVERYONE need to be surveilled for the 0.01% (or less?) who don’t behave properly. To further this point: why do we need cameras on every street, facial recognition systems and 3-letter orgs storing huge data silos and maintaining lists etc etc… One thought: is it because over 10, 20, 30+ years the police have been de-funded everywhere and become useless for difficult cases and/or militarised to deal with peaceful protesters instead? Genuine questions.. I just don’t think this surveillance nightmare is the answer, and police could still catch crooks before the internet so what’s the problem.
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