NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#891

Post by shaklee3 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:11 AM UTC

acituan wrote: post #611

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

> The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants > Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous Those are very different justifications with very different p…

Please cite a recent source that natural immunity is better/longer lasting.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#892

Post by yibg » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:14 AM UTC

Given the current attitudes towards vaccines and individual rights, it's doubtful we'll be able to have another achievement like the elimination of smallpox and polio.

What happened in the last few decades? Increased mistrust of government? Shift in the views of individualism? Or is my assessment wrong and if something like smallpox popped up today we'd be able to work together to eradicate it?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#893

Post by ryan_lane » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

aimkey wrote: post #705

colinmhayes wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated False, the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection. It's not a huge difference, but it is absolutely statistically significant.

This message has been brought to you by Pfizer. Source or GTFO EDIT: Your downvotes are delicious as you provide no source. The notion of vaccine immunity being stronger than natural immunity, especially with mRNA vaccines, is absurd. You are generating response to a single surface protein of the virus. The virus has many surface proteins and a natural infection will tune the immune system to respond to all of them.…

Says the person that's also providing no source? Why is your statement somehow more trustworthy?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#894

Post by mostertoaster » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

watercooler_guy wrote: post #812

mostertoaster wrote: post #631

Surviving is not the same thing as living just as noise is not the same thing as music. People have lost their minds over covid and act in ways that they would have said were insane probably five years ago. A bunch of younger people at very little risk of getting horribly sick, are demanding that everyone get vaccinated wear masks and want life to be miserable even though it is older people who are saying I’d rather…

You can't become part of some crazy ideological group unless you start believing and spreading their rhetoric -- the crazies on both sides don't "own" the action of getting a vaccine. If you're already willing to get the vaccine, you may as well get both doses (assuming you're talking about a two-dose vaccine). You can keep living normally, instead of just surviving as you say, while affording yourself and others aro…

First two doses for me is completely pointless. I’ve already have covid and recovered, which should be enough, but the crazies have also insisted you should still get vaccine, but even the mighty spirit of our age “science” has said just getting one as a booster combined with natural immunity would probably make you less likely to get or spread it than even those with two doses.

So no I will not get two doses because it is pointless. I might get one, and I’ll be more “safe” than all the others, yet I will purposefully not get two so I don’t get tempted to thinking those who didn’t should be shunned and isolated.

Let me ask you this, if I was a coworker and you found out I wasn’t vaccinated, yet wasn’t following the mandates, would you just say whatever, or would you notify the hotline to report violators? Could you do that with a good conscience?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#895

Post by fighterpilot » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:26 AM UTC

rajin444 wrote: post #147

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. Vaccinated people spreading the Delta variant amongst each other is not going to do that. Unvaccinated people getting sick will.

> The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system If that's the goal we need to decide what things are ok to go to the hospital for and what aren't. A lot of hospital visits could be prevented if we took the obesity epidemic seriously - I imagine the CFR of covid would be way down if America was not so obese. And if we're ok with mandating vaccines, we should definitely be ok with mandating a healthy bodyfat %.…

You're missing the key distinction which is that obesity is primarily self-destruction but the virus is largely a negative externality (passing it to others, giving evolution a chance to evolve another strain). If someone has the virus and coughs in my face, that's no better than punching me in the face, which is illegal for good reason. If they eat themselves to death instead, it's no skin off my back (aside from taxes)

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#896

Post by mostertoaster » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:34 AM UTC

watercooler_guy wrote: post #812

mostertoaster wrote: post #631

Surviving is not the same thing as living just as noise is not the same thing as music. People have lost their minds over covid and act in ways that they would have said were insane probably five years ago. A bunch of younger people at very little risk of getting horribly sick, are demanding that everyone get vaccinated wear masks and want life to be miserable even though it is older people who are saying I’d rather…

You can't become part of some crazy ideological group unless you start believing and spreading their rhetoric -- the crazies on both sides don't "own" the action of getting a vaccine. If you're already willing to get the vaccine, you may as well get both doses (assuming you're talking about a two-dose vaccine). You can keep living normally, instead of just surviving as you say, while affording yourself and others aro…

Also there are crazies on the other side too. People thinking there are giant conspiracies of powerful people plotting together how to get more power. No the scary thing about it all, is everyone the powerful and the weak are acting the way they are and feel completely justified and have their approval of their conscious.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#897

Post by logicchains » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:35 AM UTC

notJim wrote: post #543

timr wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have never required anything like this to go to a restaurant . Or the gym. Or the beach. This is a huge new step. Pointing out that children must be vaccinated against viruses that disproportionately harm children in order to participate in public education is true, but irrelevant to the question. Pointing out that we require certain vaccinations of immigrants is true, but irrelevant to the question. (Not for noth…

I think it's a practical thing. We don't require vaccination for restaurants, but because vaccination is required at schools, practically you can assume that most people are vaccinated. And for many of these illnesses, we have attained herd immunity (although antivaxers are chipping away at that.) We should want to be in the same world for COVID. I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should have to risk getting COVID when…

>You're either imposing a very safe vaccine on people

It's not very safe; there have been more adverse events reported in VAERS following the covid vaccines than in the past 20 years for all other vaccines. And unlike all those other vaccines, there's absolutely zero long-term safety data, because it's impossible to know the effects 3-5 years in future of a novel treatment that's only existed for one year.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#898

Post by atomicUpdate » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:37 AM UTC

99_00 wrote: post #890

pb7 wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

11% of Americans don't have government-issued ID. Not "don't have the ability" to get ID but don't have ID. They can get it with ease. Once we hit 89% vaccination rate then we can worry about that.

If that was true, why would voter ID be such a big issue that corporations are boycotting jurisdictions who enact it?

Virtue signaling. The same thing that drives most of Twitter.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#899

Post by reducesuffering » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:43 AM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #847

reducesuffering wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably supplement that with at least one other survey. Trafalgar is by far the most right-leaning polling group and got the 2020 election predictions the most wrong based on their polling. 538 has some more info on their methodical issues.

Eh? According to this article by Nate Silver, Trafalgar did reasonably well in 2020: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-death-of-polling-is... Especially considering polling in 2020 was way off across the board.

My mistake, thanks for the calibration. Trafalgar leaned the most towards Trump winning in 2020 so I naively assumed they were off the farthest, but clearly polling in a US election is more complicated than that.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#900

Post by dbsmith83 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

throwaway842384 wrote: post #343

sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

Now let's do obesity. From the CDC [1]: > From 1999–2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%. > Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death. > The estimated annual medical co…

> Also, if the government really cared about the health of the population, why aren't they mandating exercise or dietary health?

Probably because obesity isn't contagious...