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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#861

Post by mapme »

michannne wrote: post #769

You can still transmit the disease after getting vaccinated. Maybe if it was like the flu vaccine I'd understand, but it's not. I much prefer the mask mandate and the mask mandate is the only thing that makes sense, at least until they come out with a better vaccine. As it stands right now you have people getting the vaccine lulling themselves into the belief that they can't transmit to anyone, it's impossible to kno…

It is much more effective than the flu vaccine and you can still transmit with the flu vaccine, as neither are purely sterilizing.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#862

Post by mapme »

dnissley wrote: post #564

I have many issues with this policy, and I'm both vaccinated and pro-vaccination. 1. As others have mentioned, this is being done before the vaccine being available to children under 12 and before the vaccine has been officially approved by the FDA. 2. This policy isn't simply being announced as a way to temporarily bring down cases, it's being instituted indefinitely, with no pre-determined expiration date. 3. There…

The policy excludes children under 12 given they are not eligible.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#863

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

timr wrote: post #659
Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

I am willing to balance the risk of never having a normal life again with an overall risk of illness and death that is on par with every other year I have been alive.

It’s not about you. It’s never about you. There are plenty of people who cannot legitimately get vaccinated. Since these people have no choice to get the vaccine, then your rights to choose for yourself are rightly curtailed.

I’m always curious about these arguments. Why do you think your rights are superior to the rights of others?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#864

Post by rubatuga »

michannne wrote: post #769

You can still transmit the disease after getting vaccinated. Maybe if it was like the flu vaccine I'd understand, but it's not. I much prefer the mask mandate and the mask mandate is the only thing that makes sense, at least until they come out with a better vaccine. As it stands right now you have people getting the vaccine lulling themselves into the belief that they can't transmit to anyone, it's impossible to kno…

I totally agree. You can still transmit COVID with the vaccine. People who want to be protected from dying of COVID get the vaccine (90% less likely to die), and those who don’t will not get the vaccine. Seems simple to me.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#866

Post by chadcmulligan »

throwitaway1235 wrote: post #308

Does anyone believe this will be expanded to grocery stores, pharmacies and other basic services come fall? My job is already close to pushing mandatory vaccination and I'm trying to decide whether I should pack up my things and leave? 30 year resident and heartbroken.

Do you really believe that mandatory vaccination is the start of some expansion of government checking on everything? I'm seriously asking, like you already need a drivers license to drive, you put in taxes and the government keeps those in a central database, if you have kids in school they need to be vaccinated in most places I read in this thread. Why would covid vaccination suddenly trigger some government panopticon? they already have so much information on you, why would this be the hill you die on?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#867

Post by chadcmulligan »

turtlebits wrote: post #831

Honestly, I would just prefer everyone mask up and everything be locked down again. The amount of bickering is maddening.

I'm in australia - masked up and locked down again, like most of the east coast at the moment, it could be worse. Though Sydney seems intent on killing some of the population.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#868

Post by xxpor »

foolinaround wrote: post #802
bingohbangoh wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though? The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking

This point needs to be stated more loudly. People here pretend that if only USA was 100% vaccinated, then there will not be another variant. There will always be another part of the world where a variant will arise, and eventually make its way here to the US. OTOH, the USA is unique in the freedom it offers compared to any other country in the world, and a key ingredient in my opinion to its success. One of the most…

Most people's moral framework isn't deontological, fortunately for everyone.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#869

Post by fedreserved »

wwweston wrote: post #709
timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

> an overall risk of illness and death that is on par with every other year I have been alive. The excess death statistics would like to have a word with you, but more importantly: > If I ever become so afraid of death that I demand that other people give up their basic human rights Are basic human rights really what we're talking about here? If so, they've always had limits when it came to impacts on others. The fre…

One could argue that dining in at a restaurant is as basic as a human right as say any other right the supreme court has read into the bill of rights that were not expressly written. It's an activity that has gone on since time immortal. With the only freedom of it in history I can remember are white only restaurants or minorities being forced to get their food from the back door (Jackie Robinson).

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#870

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

dataflow wrote: post #486
ibejoeb wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is also that there is political pressure to approve it. That sucks. Whatever time it takes to go through the process is the time it takes. Pushing it through is only going to do two things: 1) show that the process is political and that FDA approval is fungible and 2) make us wonder what the purpose of it is and why we should ever do it at all after this, if it can just be bypassed when politically conven…

Yeah, it's a tough situation for sure. I've been wondering if there's a more creative solution that could be implemented here. Like someone from the FDA coming and saying, hey, we obviously won't know long term effects with 100% certainty until a few years pass, but all the signs we're seeing indicate the vaccines are just as safe as any other vaccines up to this point, we've gotten it ourselves, and it's our belief…

A rare case when political and truth intersect

The FDa is keenly aware of the political load in arriving at a decision, but knows getting it wrong means the FDA itself could dissappear. They they have yet to blink on the matter.

Therefore they err on the side of logic and let time do its thing (uncover hidden risks) for which the populace should be grateful

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