NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#811

Post by XorNot » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #658

timr wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

Does it bother you that schools ask for proof of measles vaccination? Most people recover from that too if infected during the school age years.

Most being the operative word too: 1 in 1000 get encephalitis and brain damage, 1-3 in 1000 die!

Measles R0 is also something absurd like 15, with spread characteristics of "a person with measles goes in an elevator - the next day a person gets in the same elevator and catches it".

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#812

Post by watercooler_guy » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

mostertoaster wrote: post #631

Surviving is not the same thing as living just as noise is not the same thing as music. People have lost their minds over covid and act in ways that they would have said were insane probably five years ago. A bunch of younger people at very little risk of getting horribly sick, are demanding that everyone get vaccinated wear masks and want life to be miserable even though it is older people who are saying I’d rather…

You can't become part of some crazy ideological group unless you start believing and spreading their rhetoric -- the crazies on both sides don't "own" the action of getting a vaccine. If you're already willing to get the vaccine, you may as well get both doses (assuming you're talking about a two-dose vaccine). You can keep living normally, instead of just surviving as you say, while affording yourself and others around you the maximum protection possible.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#813

Post by yezr » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #659

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

You're not being asked to give up your basic human rights though. What you are being asked to do is to get a free, readily available vaccine that will protect you and others from current and future harm.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#814

Post by johndevor » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

titzer wrote: post #718

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

> Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It's just being selective, because you had to be vaccinated to go to school and/or college. And ain't nobody alive today that can choose to not ingest microplastics, PFAs, pesticides, many can't avoid lead in their drinking water, and none of us can avoid air pollution. And COVID for that m…

> Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face.

Then get vaccinated and your risk goes down to a regular flu season.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#815

Post by XorNot » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:34 AM UTC

xjlin0 wrote: post #805

trhway wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID. vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand. Add to that that since May CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases which don't result in hospitalizations. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of p…

>vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand. The point is to greatly reduce your chance going into ICU. Trust me, nobody like the intubation. Physicians don't like it, patients hate it.

Also if you're American the short answer is you can't afford that medical bill.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#816

Post by deegles » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #129

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2.

… maybe for currently known variants. New ones will appear, and no one can predict if current vaccines will protect us from them. It makes sense to me that a mixed population of vaccinated and unvaccinated people interacting frequently could lead to vaccine-resistant strains. Keep wearing your masks!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#817

Post by reducesuffering » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #54

tboyd47 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…

Your rights end when exercising them endangers my life and the lives of my family. That’s also a basic tenet of civil society (see traffic laws for example).

So you don't have the right to drive a car, right?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#818

Post by titzer » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

johndevor wrote: post #814

titzer wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It's just being selective, because you had to be vaccinated to go to school and/or college. And ain't nobody alive today that can choose to not ingest microplastics, PFAs, pesticides, many can't avoid lead in their drinking water, and none of us can avoid air pollution. And COVID for that m…

> Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face. Then get vaccinated and your risk goes down to a regular flu season.

I did, except the collective petri dish created by the unvaccinated pool means that the risk is actually worse, and seems to be increasing as life, uh, finds a way.

All hail the march of greek letters coming our way. It seems Lambda will be next.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#819

Post by op00to » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

This ignores that willingly spreading the virus hurts the efficacy of the vaccine.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#820

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #129

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

If you get a breakthrough case of Delta, you have a 19% chance of getting long covid. That’s not to say there should be mandatory vaccinations, but case counts definitely matter.