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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#711

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I think the fear is another recession and businesses having to shut down for another time. The US can't exactly UBI death out of it's way. People are gonna die and plagues happen. I don't get why people assume that it's not supposed to happen in their lives? Guess what? Life is a constant gamble. The fact that we've hedged the odds in our favor doesn't mean that every now and then the House that is mother nature wins.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#712

Post by monocasa »

notJim wrote: post #546
preinheimer wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Completely false. There's several groups that might want the vaccine that can't get it. Including: children and the immuno compromised. 32 kids were hospitalized in one week in Alabama last month. A state with half the population of NYC. https://www.al.com/coronavirus/2021/07/infant-among-children...

I think immune compromised people can generally get the vaccine, but there are questions about how effective it is. Some have proposed they may need a 3rd dose.

Practically there's next to no data on mRNA vaccines given to immuno compromised indviduals, and almost certainly isn't the case that they're fine to get the non mRNA vaccines. So they end up not taking it for valid safety concerns.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#713

Post by websites2023 »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> 2. You have fears about the privacy implications. If so, what are those fears? Perhaps your vaccination status can lead people to make inferences about your health?

That it won’t stop at this. That I’m going to have to entrust my medical information to a shitty app that requires access to my location and contacts to show a QR code that links to a poorly secured database that will get hacked, all because the government doesn’t trust me when I say I got the vaccine.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#714

Post by titzer »

reader_mode wrote: post #641
ch4s3 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mRNA is a new, unknown technology This is untrue, researchers have been testing various mRNA therapies on people for 30 years, with it being first done in vitro in 1990 then in vivo in 1992 [1]. Lipid nano particles were first used around the same time. > the vaccine was rushed faster to public access than any other vaccine before This is only true if you ignore the development of the mRNA vaccine platform for flu,…

>This isn't a meaningful claim for 2 key reasons. There has never been a vaccine that had serious side effects that did show up shortly after vaccination[2]. The history of mRNA treatments began as an experiment in gene therapy, but has largely ben abandoned because the effects never lasted long enough. As of 2020 this is an ongoing area of research[3]. No one has figure out how to stabilize mRNA so that it has long…

> I'm not a risk group and have no problems with social distancing so I'm waiting for stuff like this to come out.

Respectfully, I think what you're really waiting for is this thing to blow over so you don't have to take any personal risk. That's likely to be a fail, as you're just a waiting Petri dish for the live virus to infect.

All kinds of things have risk and the craven merchants of doubt are busy spreading FUD about the vaccine. It's really our only way out of this shit show, because waiting around is just prolonging it.

Or would you like to have a long drawn out conversation about the long term health effects of:

* preservatives

* artificial sweeteners

* high fructose corn syrup

* pesticides

* HPV infection

* influenza/rhinovirus infection

* sunburns

* a night of heavy drinking

Because we can absolutely have a long, drawn out, twisting conversation about all those things.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#716

Post by aimkey »

icedistilled wrote: post #661
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

NPR yesterday was interviewing a guy who'd had an organ transplant and thus has to take immunosuppressant drugs. He'd been vaccinated, it was either pfizer or moderna. His doctor tested him for antibodies, his were undetectable. He was getting a third shot in hopes it would finally give him antibodies. By being against vaccines or against vaccine requirements, people risk the lives of those like that guy, who's alrea…

I have an autoimmune disorder (caused by a drug trial of an immunotherapy I was on due to cancer). I haven’t taken the vaccine because my cohort has been excluded from every trial and study. There is no (serious) guidance on how I’m supposed to schedule my regular biologic shot in concert with a vaccine dose. The CDC actually has a section on their website saying how people with auto immune issues were excluded from trials, and that they should weigh risk/reward with their doctor. Then in the next sentence they recommend getting the vaccine anyways. Totally unscientific and dangerous position from the CDC.

During this past year I’ve had to disclose my medical condition to my employer against my will due to my county’s disclosure requirements. And I have to fight with coworkers who say people in my cohort should “just get it” despite not being included in trials and despite there being no timing/drug interaction guidance.

So a big FUCK YOU from me. Vaccine requirements, along with vaccine status disclosure requirements, have destroyed my medical privacy and ostracized me at work. I’m trying to take a scientific position based on trials that actually included people in my position, and not end up like the guy you’re talking about having to take 3 and 4 and 5 shots because my biologic suppressed the immune response. Basically you’re asking me to take all of the risk of injecting an experimental drug into my arm, perhaps 1-2 times more than the typical person, without any of the reward (immunity), AND without any actual scientific basis for the treatment in the first place.

Again, FUCK YOU

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#717

Post by cuchoi »

timr wrote: post #129
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate

Chile saw a big uptick in vaccination when a similar policy was implemented.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#718

Post by titzer »

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

> Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies.

It's just being selective, because you had to be vaccinated to go to school and/or college.

And ain't nobody alive today that can choose to not ingest microplastics, PFAs, pesticides, many can't avoid lead in their drinking water, and none of us can avoid air pollution.

And COVID for that matter! I would like to choose to not put COVID in my body! It'd be great if I could CHOOSE that. But people are just wandering around spreading the plague like that's their constitutional right. Your unvaccinated fist is right in my face.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#719

Post by anigbrowl »

trident5000 wrote: post #232
clukic wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American). If cases keep rising I don't see any reason why hospitalizations and deaths won't follow. Unless the delta variant is less dangerous or treatments have improved tremendously. So, the options are 1)Stop indoor dining 2)Accept the public health implications or 3) Require…

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

Can I drive a race car down your street?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#720

Post by herbstein »

dcolkitt wrote: post #558
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> Unless, of course, you think that the vaccine is more dangerous than coronavirus. And then I don't really know what to say. I'd still encourage everyone to vaccinate for pro-social reasons, but for the young and the healthy I don't think this is such a ridiculous assertion. I'm virtually 100% confident that vaccines are completely safe and effective. However for a large fraction of people they will make you feel li…

> However for a large fraction of people they will make you feel like shit for 2-5 days.

I'm healthy and 23 years old. I've had Covid. The feeling of being out of breath for 2 weeks straight is horrible. You'd think you would get used to it but you don't. It was a constant struggle that kept me from falling asleep. Feeling like shit for a couple of days, but only the "known" headache and soreness, is strictly preferable. I've been vaccinated with Moderna (the mRNA vaccine with the worse side-effects as far as I can tell) and had a mild case of symptomatic Covid. Getting the vaccine is vastly preferable to the chance of getting symptomatic Covid.

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